Is society losing patience towards people on benefits?

[Cyclone]

Our nuclear deterant is pointless. The Americans have plenty to destroy the world over, and would probably use them if china ever became a threat - which I seriously doubt they will.

Seems you are still living in the cold war era and do not want to give up on it.

Why does Britain need to spend billions on nuclear weapons when everyone else has enough to go round several times over?

And china is going to skip the rest of the world and attack us? Even if they somehow did, I doubt the rest of the world would just sit by and watch it happen.

 

We do not need them.

 

Given that the cold war ended before I was old enough to understand what it was it seems unlikely that I'm still trying to live in it.

The cold war explains why we had nuclear weapons, ongoing threats explain why we have them now.

It would be strategically unsound to rely solely on an ally for something like your nuclear deterrant.

I see again that you ignored my question, you seem to struggle with discussions, you continually demand answers and explanations but don't like to give them yourself.

 

Why do you think politicians see a need for nuclear weapons, do they just like to waste billions of pounds? Or do they still want to live in the cold war, or maybe do they have a better grasp of international politics than you?

[DragonofAna]

Only in your head. Maybe you should look up the word 'towards'.

That's effectively what 'towards' means in my statement.

You're telling me how my statement has been read by you. Since you've read it wrong and apparently don't understand basic English it's hardly my problem.

 

Yadda yadda yadda! Takes a big person to admit that something they may have said could be misleading (even if only to one person). You are definitely not a big person are ya?

 

And your continued abuse of the English language to try to continue to show your superior mental ability does not surprise me at all.

 

If I put 10p towards an apple that costs 50p then all my 10p goes towards the purchase of that apple. You figure out the relevance if you can, but somehow I doubt you will.

 

And that's enough of that malarky for me. I'll leave you to chucking your pathetic insults.

[DragonofAna]

I see again that you ignored my question, you seem to struggle with discussions, you continually demand answers and explanations but don't like to give them yourself.

 

Why do you think politicians see a need for nuclear weapons, do they just like to waste billions of pounds? Or do they still want to live in the cold war, or maybe do they have a better grasp of international politics than you?

 

As I said before - you talk crap.

 

Never demanded answers in me life.

 

I have no idea why politicians see a need for nuclear weapons. Do all politicians see a need for them? Having not spoken to all politicians I could not say whether they all do or not.

 

Hey ho! Please continue. You make me chuckle.

[sharrowman]

Fivetide - "Oh I see"

 

I am not sure you do see. I struggle to see an aspect of the Hussein regime that was even beginning to look good. I accept, like you, the war was not conducted in the way it might have been. In a world of infinite possibilities this is inevitable. The cause for which we went to war, again, was economic. Razing a country to the ground does not make a humanitarian haven. It makes a blank slate upon which to start afresh. Upon which to sell civil engineering contracts. Or from which to extract oil.

 

The economic and humanitarian agendas have not fortuitously fallen together, they have been tricked into colluding, each serving to degrade the other, in a catastrophic war machine.

 

My objection then is to doing to any given country what we claim to abhor in it's current obnoxious leaders. Subjugate it's population, torture and kill.

 

You seem to feel a moral righteousness that allows you to justify military actions abroad, that allows you to paint with a rosey hue destruction and mayhem on a scale never before seen. I don't know if you are lucky, but I guess it helps you make sense of this terror.

[sharrowman]

fivetide - "We like our luxury, so stuff the poor"

 

It is our luxury indeed that costs others so dear

[Jonny5]

From a topic on benefit claiments to a flame-out with asides to nuclear war and the Balkans conflict in 5 easy pages. Sheff Forum at its finest!

[Fivetide]

Fivetide - "Oh I see"

 

I am not sure you do see. I struggle to see an aspect of the Hussein regime that was even beginning to look good. I accept, like you, the war was not conducted in the way it might have been. In a world of infinite possibilities this is inevitable. The cause for which we went to war, again, was economic. Razing a country to the ground does not make a humanitarian haven. It makes a blank slate upon which to start afresh. Upon which to sell civil engineering contracts. Or from which to extract oil.

 

I see that you have a simplistic view of the world in which action should only be taken if it is motivated by the purest of pure moral intentions. If there is any hint of selfish intent in anything our nation does then our nation should not do it. Apparently.

 

I also see that you're unable to keep a perspective on what happened, Iraq was not 'razed to the ground' even if it does make a suitably impressive soundbite. And don't bother claiming that means I think nothing was damaged. Damage was done to infrastructure, civilian building, homes, families etc ad nauseum. That's the tragic side of military intervention. But does the shameful (well, maybe) bombing of Dresden mean we were wrong to fight Hitler? I doubt it. And that was an economic war at heart let's remember. Be careful with the 'perfect world' philosophy, it ends up looking silly when compared to the real world.

 

And stop telling me I think Iraq's a 'humanitarian haven' you words-in-mouth-putter.

 

The cause Bliar and Bush went to war for was a mixture of economic and humanitarian. If you want to say that the humanitarian or self-defensive were side issues used to justify the economic objectives then fine. It's not contradicting my point, which is that in this real world it is only ever a mixture of selfish and unselfish which prompts us to act. I don't particularly care what the reasons were, I think it was right to intervene (the reasons given for war are totally besides the point to the effect) and wrong to stuff it up like they did.

 

The economic and humanitarian agendas have not fortuitously fallen together,

Yes, they did. If it was simply economic we'd be invading far more than just bloody Iraq. Belize would be near the top of the list, followed by Scotland (to get our money back).

 

they have been tricked into colluding, each serving to degrade the other, in a catastrophic war machine.

 

Oh dear. It's keeping things in perspective that's the problem isn't it? A 'catastrophic war machine' lmao. Try 'imperfect but in the end effective military intervention'. Aims pretty much acheived. Score one for Tony and George (ok ok that's blatantly provocative! ...and not serious)

 

My objection then is to doing to any given country what we claim to abhor in it's current obnoxious leaders. Subjugate it's population, torture and kill.

 

In none of the places mentioned - Afghanistan, the Balkans or Iraq - have we intervened in order to "Subjugate the population, torture, kill" or in order to prop up regimes intent on doing so.

 

P.e.r.s.p.e.c.t.i.v.e.

 

You seem to feel a moral righteousness that allows you to justify military actions abroad, that allows you to paint with a rosey hue destruction and mayhem on a scale never before seen. I don't know if you are lucky, but I guess it helps you make sense of this terror.

 

You seem to have a moral turpitude, where any action is wrong just in case a small child gets a grazed knee.

 

Not only that but you haven't yet moved away from a simplistic and plainly wrong representation of what I've said. It's righteousness I think's crap. Righteousness has no place in the real world, which might be why you're so enamoured of it. Do keep up. REAL WORLD. No rosy hues, no righteousness (that's your department)... real world. get in it.

 

**it happens and it ain't always good, but don't pretend we can stop it by not doing anything at all. When it happens, we wipe our bum and carry on as best we can, hoping it doesn't chafe and no-one notices the smell. We don't sit in it crying because the bog roll isn't recycled. (the image just got worse and worse as I wrote it out... sorry).

 

This is not a black and white issue, it's a massive grey area. The goods and bads are wrapped up all together in a tangled ball of wtf. Shouting "people died so it's wrong" is ... well it's all you've got isn't it. Each to their own I guess.

 

edit - maybe we should send the benefit scroungers to Baghdad to sign on.

[limpetboy]

lol forgot to quote - fao Paul2412

 

sorry, where did i say everyone should work in the food industry?

 

your work 'indirectly reduces' anti-social behaviour. vry nice. so a small, unquantifiable contribution to society that costs... um... more, or less than 1000 wells in Sudan?

 

You're missing my point I think, I'm not criticising the fact your work is a cheap excuse to get paid for mucking about. Go for it.

 

Just stop pretending it's morally better than being on the dole. You've found a nice little easy street niche, why beat up on others for finding theirs?

 

What do you do, fivetide?

[Paul2412]

lol forgot to quote - fao Paul2412

 

sorry, where did i say everyone should work in the food industry?

 

your work 'indirectly reduces' anti-social behaviour. vry nice. so a small, unquantifiable contribution to society that costs... um... more, or less than 1000 wells in Sudan?

 

You're missing my point I think, I'm not criticising the fact your work is a cheap excuse to get paid for mucking about. Go for it.

 

Just stop pretending it's morally better than being on the dole. You've found a nice little easy street niche, why beat up on others for finding theirs?

 

You clearly have quite disturbing issues.

[DragonofAna]

From a topic on benefit claiments to a flame-out with asides to nuclear war and the Balkans conflict in 5 easy pages. Sheff Forum at its finest!

 

It's all good mate. We haven't started on religion or babies yet. :hihi: