Michigan-based militant group indicted for 'waging war' on US gov't

[esme]

I believe automatic weapons and the kits to make the single shot versions fully or semi automatic are illegal, however single shot versions can be owned

[Harleyman]

That could describe anyone in America then (re. the 2nd amendment to the constitution).

 

Rubbish! Just another parroted post about America and the issue of guns.

Millions of law abiding citizens choose to own firearms, myself included and the antics of a few nutters is not a reflection on the attitudes or mentalities of these millions of gun owners.

 

Here gun ownership is a right. In the UK and elsewhere in Europe only the criminals own guns

[Cavegirl]

I think the main interest of this story is not so much that this was a Christian fundamentalist organisation, but that it was a militia group based in Michigan. There's an awful lot of material on You Tube at the moment showing the dire living conditions that people in that US state are now facing- in particular in Detroit, but also Flint, Cleveland and other post-industrialised cities in the state. In large part these places look more like war zones than cities.

 

Dying Detroit video-

 

The mayor of Detroit recently proposed the idea of actually demolishing huge parts of the city and re-converting it to agricultural land because the huge spate of house foreclosures following the recession had left so much of the city uninhabited and terribly run down.

 

What is particularly worrying is the sense that Michigan may only be the first example of this type of state failure- it's well known that California is bankrupt and many other states are also in a dire financial situation. The number of extremist militia-type groups has risen dramatically since the last recession and many futurists believe that the US has overstretched itself in the same way that all Empires have done historically- the British Empire went through the same process, as did the USSR more recently. Some US states are even trying to break free of federal control and to be recognised as individual nations just as happened in the USSR. Given this sense of terminal decline and impoverishment I don't think we should be too surprised to read many more of these stories over the next few years and we should probably hope that the UK doesn't follow suit.

 

This 1 1/2 hour video is a lecture given by Dimitry Orlov on the likely challenges the US government and people face in the years ahead, he uses his experiences of the Russian collapse to outline the situation, but in great Russian fashion also provides a darkly humorous overview-

http://fora.tv/2009/02/13/Dmitry_Orlov_Social_Collapse_Best_Practices

 

I'd love to hear what people think of his predictions.

[Harleyman]

Don't be in a hurry to write off the US just yet. It has survived a civil war, the great depression, world war 2, the Vietnam war and the civil rights struggle which split the country asunder for a few years. During all this time the US managed to lead the free world and provide billions in aid to less fortunate countries. It will survive it's present trials also and come out better than ever.

 

The militant groups that everbody is suddenly concerned about have been around as long as the country has existed. The KKK appeared just after the civil war, militant groups such as the Minutemen and the Symbonese Liberation army came and went in the 60s. In a country as diverse in ideas and opinions as America is this is to be expected but for all their rhetoric none of these groups have thrived or made any significant difference to America as a whole.

 

Most of the kind of people who join these small militant groups are ill educated trailer trash who wouldn't have the mental capacity to balance their own check books let alone carry out the various acts of terrorism and assassinations they spout on about

 

The only threats to be taken seriously are the ones from the middle east

[epiphany]

The lack of credit supply creating conditions of poverty amidst plenty in many US states, including Michigan, has led to a growing movement for publically owned banks, based on successful states such as North Dakota.

 

ND has experienced a large yearly surplus since 1919 and is seemingly isolated in its prosperity. This is partly because it has harnessed its own sovereign power to create credit, free of crippling private usury and lending operations determined by a myopic single bottom line. All interest is paid back into the state treasury which can then be used in the productive economy to meet social and labour needs. It has private banks as customers (how they should be), and has been able to meet the demands of the market due to its large capital base.

 

Credit is merely a means of exchange, and since over 90% of our money supply originates from interest-ladened commercial loans, you have to wonder if all our eggs are not in the same basket. Much of the wealth created from this private interest is siphoned off shore to private trust funds. The privilege of creating fractional reserve based accounting entries and charging interest on newly created money is not exclusively a commercial bank's, and more and more state representatives are exploring how the public can use this privilege themselves to fuel abundant but dormant productivity where private credit has been frozen.

[KamalJoe]

Rubbish! Just another parroted post about America and the issue of guns.

Millions of law abiding citizens choose to own firearms, myself included and the antics of a few nutters is not a reflection on the attitudes or mentalities of these millions of gun owners.

 

Here gun ownership is a right. In the UK and elsewhere in Europe only the criminals own guns

 

Really? but according to the "law of the free" everyone should be termed as terrorist if a bunch of black sheep have done something bad. The context is clear.

 

Lets face it. US has some serious gun related problems which are all home grown. School shootings are a classic example. The various gangs that operate don't use sticks to fight and assassinate but sophisticated weapons. Give a chance to newly retired soldiers (deranged war veterans) and you have local massacres.

[foxy lady]

Really? but according to the "law of the free" everyone should be termed as terrorist if a bunch of black sheep have done something bad. The context is clear.

 

Lets face it. US has some serious gun related problems which are all home grown. School shootings are a classic example. The various gangs that operate don't use sticks to fight and assassinate but sophisticated weapons. Give a chance to newly retired soldiers (deranged war veterans) and you have local massacres.

 

I would have thought that 3rd world countries like Pakistan had far more problems. I civilized societies it is a major headline when some nutter sets off a bomb.

[Harleyman]

Really? but according to the "law of the free" everyone should be termed as terrorist if a bunch of black sheep have done something bad. The context is clear.

Lets face it. US has some serious gun related problems which are all home grown. School shootings are a classic example. The various gangs that operate don't use sticks to fight and assassinate but sophisticated weapons. Give a chance to newly retired soldiers (deranged war veterans) and you have local massacres.

 

In that case then based on your cockeyed logic the UK government should start classifying every muslim in Britain as a potential terrorist since a few of them have "done something bad"

 

Also I find your reference to war veterans highly insulting. You just dont have a clue do ya?

[KamalJoe]

In that case then based on your cockeyed logic the UK government should start classifying every muslim in Britain as a potential terrorist since a few of them have "done something bad"

 

Also I find your reference to war veterans highly insulting. You just dont have a clue do ya?

 

I didn't insult the war veterans at all, neither I talked about every single one of them. I was talking about the psycho paths which go on a shooting spree killing innocent, apparently their military experience in Iraq and Afghanistan played a vital role in it.

 

Here's the latest development:

 

FBI Agent Discovered at Center of Alleged Hutaree Conspiracy

 

Now what say you.

[KamalJoe]

I would have thought that 3rd world countries like Pakistan had far more problems. I civilized societies it is a major headline when some nutter sets off a bomb.

 

Agreed. 3rd world countries are bound to have problems because they're third world countries. But why this un-civilized behavior from developed countries?