Top Tory wants to deny Gay couples access to B and B’s

[mj.scuba]

i assume ill be shot down for making any point on this forum actually.

 

And i wasn't actually being defensive.

 

No you're not being shot down, it's just differing opinions

[jeremyjh1]

I think many are losing the actual 'point' that was being made, by Grayling (not what the OP distorted). That a homeowner of a B&B (it's a business, but it is also their home) should have the right to refuse the custom of a gay couple (man and man or woman and woman) as it is, ultimately, their home as well. But, and this is the part that the OP conveniently 'omits', Grayling went on to say that this should not apply elsewhere - i.e. where the 'business' is not also a 'home'.

 

It is very complicated because the same laws of discrimination could easily be extended to the home owner being taken to court for refusing to allow Tim and Robert, a gay couple friend of their son or daughter, to enter their house as they (the homeowners) are Catholic and it is a religious matter.

 

Is it discrimination to say 'I don't like you'? Yes, it can easily be made discrimination if the person in question is gay or dark skinned or disabled or Asian or....

 

Someone else said a business cannot refuse to serve anyone without a valid reason. So, you are a gay, dark-skinned, Asian man in a wheelchair and I refuse to serve you. You ask for a valid reason and I say 'because I don't like you'.

 

Now, prove why.

[boyfriday]

no but would it make the papers?

 

I'm not interested in whether it makes the papers or not, I'm interested in people getting the bed for the night that they have booked and paid for.

[GothicCharm]

i do think if its paid for and the owner wont have them they should have their money back. i also think if they are going to disallow gay couples they should make that clear before the booking in some way or another i dont think its right for the couple to be turned away after booking but if they were allowed to turn away gay couples maybe they would already know they wont be welcome. what's worse being turned away or feeling extremely unwelcome? i'd rather be turned away

[mj.scuba]

I think many are losing the actual 'point' that was being made, by Grayling (not what the OP distorted). That a homeowner of a B&B (it's a business, but it is also their home) should have the right to refuse the custom of a gay couple (man and man or woman and woman) as it is, ultimately, their home as well. But, and this is the part that the OP conveniently 'omits', Grayling went on to say that this should not apply elsewhere - i.e. where the 'business' is not also a 'home'.

 

It is very complicated because the same laws of discrimination could easily be extended to the home owner being taken to court for refusing to allow Tim and Robert, a gay couple friend of their son or daughter, to enter their house as they (the homeowners) are Catholic and it is a religious matter.

 

Is it discrimination to say 'I don't like you'? Yes, it can easily be made discrimination if the person in question is gay or dark skinned or disabled or Asian or....

 

Someone else said a business cannot refuse to serve anyone without a valid reason. So, you are a gay, dark-skinned, Asian man in a wheelchair and I refuse to serve you. You ask for a valid reason and I say 'because I don't like you'.

 

Now, prove why.

 

But it would not be relevant to prove why, since none of those warrent being discriminated against.

[NoddyHolder]

That's like saying; supporters of the NSPCC have misguided loyalties because kids are always being cruel to one another.

Are we on the same thread ?

[Cyclone]

Why? Folks are quite capable of booking rooms in the same hotel or even the hotel up the road. It is only necessary to be in the same town for a stag party, not live at the same address.

 

Nor is two men making a booking only possible for stag do's. So any hotelier making that assumption is likely to be wrong a good portion of the time.

And the double bed portion of your earlier post is irrelevant to your attempt to justify turning men away due to the stag do excuse. Unless of course they don't mind people on stag do's using twin rooms...

[Cyclone]

I think many are losing the actual 'point' that was being made, by Grayling (not what the OP distorted). That a homeowner of a B&B (it's a business, but it is also their home) should have the right to refuse the custom of a gay couple (man and man or woman and woman) as it is, ultimately, their home as well. But, and this is the part that the OP conveniently 'omits', Grayling went on to say that this should not apply elsewhere - i.e. where the 'business' is not also a 'home'.

The legislation for businesses has to apply to all businesses, not only ones that are not sharing space with a private residence.

 

It is very complicated because the same laws of discrimination could easily be extended to the home owner being taken to court for refusing to allow Tim and Robert, a gay couple friend of their son or daughter, to enter their house as they (the homeowners) are Catholic and it is a religious matter.

Not unless being friends has somehow become a business.

 

Is it discrimination to say 'I don't like you'? Yes, it can easily be made discrimination if the person in question is gay or dark skinned or disabled or Asian or....

It depends doesn't it, on whether you dislike them for the group they are in, or whether you dislike them for reasons specific to themselves.

 

Someone else said a business cannot refuse to serve anyone without a valid reason. So, you are a gay, dark-skinned, Asian man in a wheelchair and I refuse to serve you. You ask for a valid reason and I say 'because I don't like you'.

Yes, that's true.

 

Now, prove why.

Prove that it's discrimination? An individual couldn't. I suppose if someone were to try to gather evidence they'd send in representatives of various groups and see if there was a pattern in who you took an immediate dislike to.

[boyfriday]

i do think if its paid for and the owner wont have them they should have their money back. i also think if they are going to disallow gay couples they should make that clear before the booking in some way or another i dont think its right for the couple to be turned away after booking but if they were allowed to turn away gay couples maybe they would already know they wont be welcome. what's worse being turned away or feeling extremely unwelcome? i'd rather be turned away

 

There will be many gay couples who have experienced discrimination like this and it's like water off a duck's back. Conversely, there will be others who will be pee'd off about it and they are entitled to be so.

 

In my business I've dealt with racists and xenophobes, people who I wouldnt choose as friends, but there's no legitimacy as far as Im concerned in refusing to deal with them, provided their behaviour has no bearing on me directly.

 

I believe it's unreasonable to expect gay couples to announce the fact to anybody, it's embarrassing, potentially humiliating and frankly nobody's business.

 

A B&B owner should restrict his interest to the behaviour of people and whether it materially affects his property or other guests. If they're gay and behaving anti socially, then chuck em out the same way you would heterosexual guests.

[jeremyjh1]

But it would not be relevant to prove why, since none of those warrent being discriminated against.

 

Do they not?

 

So, I can say to a dark skinned, diasbled, Asain gay man 'I refuse to serve you because I don't like you' and I will not be accused of:

 

Racial discrimination - dark skinned

Homopobic discrimination - gay man

Discrimination against disabled persons

And possibly sexist because he's a man (a bit tenuous, but still possible).

 

I must have moved to another planet, because I am pretty sure each of those instances would be easy to use as discrimination.

 

Certainly, I doubt the gay, Asian, dark-skinned disabled man would accept my dislike of him as being just that and not press to discover that I had some problem with dark-skinned persons or gays or disabled people or Asians.

 

It's all relevant when you consider the 'give a valid reason' for refusal to serve a person.

 

I, personally, in business am happy to take the money of anyone, even people I really do not like at all.

 

But, inviting them to my house for a meal....?

 

It's in the post. Honest