State sanctioned paedophilia

[Plain Talker]

Is this part of the Islamic regime that we hear is so fantastic all the time?

 

No, what it is, is part of the misogynistic Yemeni regime. Which many people ar endeavouring to change.

 

Perhaps they are. I know several 12-year-olds that are willingly and enthusiastically having sex.

 

What? When i was at school there were several girls that were quite happy having sex at 12 - it certainly isn't made up.

 

Not saying it is right of course, but it isn't made up.

 

Back when I was 12, I knew of two girls of my age (one in my form at school) who were indulging, and one fifteen year old (who was also "on the game" as my mother kept so succinctly putting it.) It did happen, but it seemed to be so much rarer back then...

 

 

• The girls in Yemen have no choice in the matter, so their consent is neither required or relevant in the arrangement.
  
• The girls in Yemen are often pre-pubesent, not even having periods yet. By definition, isn't paedophilia to do with the sexual maturity of the youngster?
  
• In the case of underage youngsters as young as 12 being sexually active in the UK, at least they have choice no matter how unwise their choice may be. Both parties can still be prosecuted, statutory rape in some cases regardless of consent.
  

 

1) (a) See my first response in this post. That's the Yemeni regime, not Islam.

 

1) b) Choice in the matter is a Qur'anic right. Any person has the right to reject a potential spouse, as per Qur'anic scriptures.

 

See also, just as importantly, article 16-2 of the Universal Declaration Of Human Rights:-

16-(2) Marriage shall be entered into only with the free and full consent of the intending spouses.

 

2) (a) That all depends on the law of the individual Country. See wildcat's comments, about the age of consent differing from country to country. It's as low as 13 in some countries.

 

2) (b) Paedophilia is an unnatural attraction for pre-pubescent children, not necessarily simply for those under the age of consent. someone can be aged just 14 but look 20...

 

3) (a) SOME under-age kids in the UK may choose to be sexually active, we don't know how many are coerced.

 

3)( b) No, if the child (girl particularly) is under 13 she is deemed incapable to give consent, and therefore the adult would be liable to prosecution, not the child.

 

3) © again, if both youngsters are of a very similar age, especially if the boy is under 16, too, then it's looked on a little more leniently, than if the boy was aged over 16. If the older party is over 21, then it's considered very seriously indeed.

 

This is a similar argument to the female circumcision one and you can usually rely on someone saying that its "cultural" and nasty Westerners have no right poking their noses in.

 

Taxman, FGM is abhorrent. Cultural or not, it's a practice that needs stopping, whether it's Muslims, Christians or Animists who are doing it.

[Wildcat]

The fact that you're comparing the Spanish and Yemeni legal systems speak volumes and proves what I said about the most vocal 'human rights' spokespeople happily siding with apartheid as long as it's based on gender and not race.

 

It just shows how far there is to go before women and children are really considered fully human, even in the supposedly liberated West. Culturally, it still doesn't register in many people's subconscious.

 

I don't follow your argument at all

 

In fact I haven't said anything about the Yemeni system or power relationships within Yemeni society. I merely made the point that the example given of a 13 year old could legally have occurred in Spain as well as the Yemen.

 

If this is a clear example of anything it is of a failure to provide medical care. This could be something worthy of a thread and worthy of discussion and no doubt would involve sexual power relationships. It just isn't obviously a very good example of state sanctioned paedophilia, or if it is it needs to be seen in context of practices elsewhere in the world. Of which there are many countries with ages of consent around 13 years of age.

 

As I understand it in Yemen the age of consent is based on puberty which could be as young as nine. If the OP wants an example in Yemen of paedophilia to argue, the case of Nujood Ali is the more obvious one.

[depoix]

why does it come down to what a country (politicians)decide is the age of consent?

surely its more a moral principle,sex with a child of 12 is immoral whether some politician says otherwise or not

[[Matt]]

No, what it is, is part of the misogynistic Yemeni regime. Which many people ar endeavouring to change.

Just to add, many who are opposed to Islam quite often cite Muhammad's marriage to his wife Aisha at the age of six as a reason for thoroughly disliking the religion and its prophet. Whilst I do find the thought of marriage at such a young age to be abhorrent I can also recognise that Muhammed also belonged to a bygone era that treated women as second class citizens. When anyone points out the age of Muhammed's favourite wife at the time of their marriage to try and demonise him i will also point out the fact that marriages of female children were also common within European aristocracy all throughout the middle ages. To illustrate this point i usually refer to Richard II of England and his marriage to Isabella of Valois who was also 6 at the time of her marriage...

 

As for modern day child marriages, they tend to be a product of modern day country still living by medieval ideals and need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century...

[TeaFan]

It's not our business to interfere and impose Western values on different cultures to our own. Each country has the right to define its own age of consent or not to choose to have one at all.

 

The problem with this point of view is that it assumes that everyone within a particular culture shares the same values, which of course is never the case. So this person's view is essentially if they want to rape children that's their business. But what about the views of the children being raped and others who oppose it? Don't their views also go to make up 'the culture' of the country? Or is it the case that if your view is a minority one, then it doesn't count?

 

What's worse is that in countries like Yemen, dissenting voices are sidelined and silenced, so it's debatable whether these are the prevailing values in that society or just those of the group with the most power.

 

For example, the Chinese government can and does give ultra-nationalists loyal to the regime plenty of opportunity to have their say, and at the same time suppresses dissenting opinion. So it looks like the Chinese totally agree with everything their government does, but that's a distorted and unreliable view.

[Wildcat]

It's not our business to interfere and impose Western values on different cultures to our own. Each country has the right to define its own age of consent or not to choose to have one at all.

 

Every person has a right to an opinion on the age of consent or any other practice in another country. They also have the right to campaign against another countries practices.

[NoddyHolder]

;6117493']Just to add, many who are opposed to Islam quite often cite Muhammad's marriage to his wife Aisha at the age of six as a reason for thoroughly disliking the religion and its prophet. Whilst I do find the thought of marriage at such a young age to be abhorrent I can also recognise that Muhammed also belonged to a bygone era that treated women as second class citizens. When anyone points out the age of Muhammed's favourite wife at the time of their marriage to try and demonise him i will also point out the fact that marriages of female children were also common within European aristocracy all throughout the middle ages. To illustrate this point i usually refer to Richard II of England and his marriage to Isabella of Valois who was also 6 at the time of her marriage...

 

As for modern day child marriages, they tend to be a product of modern day country still living by medieval ideals and need to be dragged kicking and screaming into the 21st century...

I think you will find that Richards marriage was completely different ,it was a condition of a truce with France and was merely political.it is pretty much certain that the marriage was never consummated

[Plain Talker]

I think you will find that Richards marriage was completely different ,it was a condition of a truce with France and was merely political.it is pretty much certain that the marriage was never consummated

 

As I understand it, the Prophet's marriage was of a similar basis, to do with tribal truces, and the bringing of Ayesha into Mohammed's (PBUT) tribe for protection.

 

Child marriages such as this were relatively common in Bedouin societies at the time, and remain common in some modern societies worldwide.

 

American scholar Colin Turner suggests that such marriages were not seen as improper in historical context, and that individuals in such societies matured at an earlier age than in the modern West. In modern times, however, the issue of Muhammad marrying and having sexual relations with a girl so young has been used to criticize him, particularly in the West.

[NoddyHolder]

As I understand it, the Prophet's marriage was of a similar basis, to do with tribal truces, and the bringing of Ayesha into Mohammed's (PBUT) tribe for protection.

 

Child marriages such as this were relatively common in Bedouin societies at the time, and remain common in some modern societies worldwide.

 

American scholar Colin Turner suggests that such marriages were not seen as improper in historical context, and that individuals in such societies matured at an earlier age than in the modern West. In modern times, however, the issue of Muhammad marrying and having sexual relations with a girl so young has been used to criticize him, particularly in the West.

Correct me if Im wrong but doesnt it mention that the marriage was consummated at a certain age..nine ?

[Wildcat]

Correct me if Im wrong but doesnt it mention that the marriage was consummated at a certain age..nine ?

 

Whilst marriage at 9 is still I believe the conventional view based on one of the Hadiths, research in to other hadiths has shown a later date.

 

Whilst this isn't strictly a muslim site, it does explain and reference some of the conflicts that have led various people studying the texts to think it was later and in some cases much later.

 

http://www.muslim.org/islam/aisha-age.htm