Catholic Church links gay men to paedophilia

[BritPat]

The most blatantly Jewish-looking person I ever met in my life was a Cypriot, and had no Semitic blood whatsoever in his veins.

 

Yasser Arafat had a bit of a beak on him too but he was as welcome in a synagogue as a pork pie

[Grahame]

I'm not laughing at you. I never have and never will (unless you tell a particularly funny joke).

 

One of my closest friends is Jewish. He lives in Israel.

 

I have lots of Jewish friends. And witches and spiritualists and druids and buddhists.

 

The diversity of life is magical. I just wish we could all see that and stop trying to label everything and everyone!

 

I think the biggest problem is with those who attack religion, if only they would let sleeping dogs lie and everyone stops fighting their corner and accepts one another for what they are then perhaps then we will stop labelling people, but until that happens how do you discuss politics or religion without identifying them?

[HeadingNorth]

Yasser Arafat had a bit of a beak on him too but he was as welcome in a synagogue as a pork pie

 

But Arafat was Semitic, was he not? I'd expect him to look vaguely "Jewish" - since what most Western people mean by "looking Jewish" is looking Semitic.

[BritPat]

But Arafat was Semitic, was he not? I'd expect him to look vaguely "Jewish" - since what most Western people mean by "looking Jewish" is looking Semitic.

 

A good point well made.

[Karis]

I think the biggest problem is with those who attack religion, if only they would let sleeping dogs lie and everyone stops fighting their corner and accepts one another for what they are then perhaps then we will stop labelling people, but until that happens how do you discuss politics or religion without identifying them?

 

Very difficult indeed. I think for it to work, everyone has to be open minded about everyone else and open to what they have to say. And that isn't going to happen overnight.

[millhouses24]

Very difficult indeed. I think for it to work, everyone has to be open minded about everyone else and open to what they have to say. And that isn't going to happen overnight.

 

Oh come on, don't be so negative. Just look at this site. Just look at how much we all love each other and tolerate and respect each others views. We make the diplomatic meetings of the UN look like World War Three!

 

(some of the above may be a lie )

[Grahame]

Very difficult indeed. I think for it to work, everyone has to be open minded about everyone else and open to what they have to say. And that isn't going to happen overnight.

 

I think it might happen in time if only because we might all get tired of arguing and realise we aren't going to change anything, so in a way we might as well give up and just talk and enjoy each others company?

 

It might be a long time coming, but I am sure it will and there are lots of people on here who just chat and joke. The trouble is, I'm not that witty and need something to talk about. Ah well.

[Karis]

Oh come on, don't be so negative. Just look at this site. Just look at how much we all love each other and tolerate and respect each others views. We make the diplomatic meetings of the UN look like World War Three!

 

(some of the above may be a lie )

 

That REALLY made me laugh. A LOT.

 

There's so much love and understanding on this forum. It's like that Cher song...

 

the Shoop Shoop song!

 

No, wait, that's wrong!

[plekhanov]

As someone mentioned anti-semitism this story seemed. There truly seem to be no self destructive depths the Catholic Church won't sink to to try and distract people from it's decades longs conspiracy to protect it's wealth and power at the cost of children being raped by it's own priests.

 

Pope's preacher: Accusations akin to anti-Semitism

 

VATICAN CITY – At a solemn Good Friday service, Pope Benedict XVI's personal preacher likened the tide of allegations that the pontiff has covered up sex abuse cases to the "more shameful aspects of anti-Semitism." But within hours, facing a storm of criticism at the comparison, the Vatican felt it necessary to distance the pope from the preacher's remarks.

 

Both Jewish and victims' groups responded that it was inappropriate to compare the discomfort being experienced by the church leadership in the sex abuse scandal to the violence that culminated in the Holocaust. The Vatican has been on the defensive in recent days, saying the church has been singled out and collectively stereotyped for the problem of pedophilia, which it says is a society-wide issue.

 

Invoking any comparison with anti-Semitism was particularly sensitive on Good Friday, itself a delicate day in a decades-long effort by Jews and Catholics to overcome a legacy of mistrust. There was a long-held Catholic belief that Jews were collectively responsible for executing Christ, and a landmark achievement of the Second Vatican Council of the 1960s was a declaration stating the Jews should not be blamed for the crucifixion.

 

As the pope listened in a hushed St. Peter's Basilica, the Rev. Raniero Cantalamessa likened accusations against the pontiff and the Catholic church in sex abuse scandals in Europe, the U.S. and elsewhere to "collective violence" suffered by the Jews.

 

Benedict, 82, looked weary as he sat near the central altar at the early evening prayer service.

 

Cantalamessa, in his reflections for the pope on the Catholic church's most solemn day, said he was inspired by a letter from an unidentified Jewish friend who was upset by the "attacks" against Benedict.

 

Jews "know from experience what it means to be victims of collective violence and also because of this they are quick to recognize the recurring symptoms," said Cantalamessa, a Franciscan priest.

 

Quoting from the letter, Cantalamessa said his Jewish friend was following "with indignation the violent and concentric attacks against the church, the pope and all the faithful of the whole world."

 

"The use of stereotypes, the passing from personal responsibility and guilt to a collective guilt remind me of the more shameful aspects of anti-Semitism," he said, quoting from the letter.

 

The Rev. Federico Lombardi, a Vatican spokesman, later contacted The Associated Press and said Cantalamessa wasn't speaking as a Vatican official when he compared "attacks'" on the pope to "collective" violence against Jews.

 

Such parallelism can "lead to misunderstandings and is not an official position of the Catholic church," Lombardi said, adding that Cantalamessa was speaking about a letter from a friend who lived through a "painful experience."

 

Although the Vatican said Cantalamessa wasn't speaking as an official of the Holy See, its official daily newspaper L'Osservatore Romano ran the text of the homily in full.

 

Benedict didn't speak after the homily but chanted prayers in a tired voice. He leaned up to remove a red cloth covering a tall crucifix, which was passed to him by an aide. He took off his shoes, knelt and prayed before the cross.

 

Two hours later, Benedict, wearing a red cloak in the breezy night, knelt in prayer at the Colosseum as he watched the faithful carry a tall, slim wooden cross in Rome's traditional torchlit Via Crucis procession that commemorates Christ's suffering and death. Thousands of people clutching prayerbooks and candles crowded around the ancient arena.

 

During the procession, "we meditated on his (Jesus') suffering and discovered how deep his love was and is for us," Benedict said in a brief remarks at the end of the 90-minute ceremony. Then he blessed the crowd, prompting cheers and some shouts of "Long live the pope."

 

Victims say Benedict — both as a former archbishop of Munich and later as a Vatican cardinal directing the Holy See's policy on handling abuse cases — was part of a culture of cover-up and confidentiality basically devised to protect church hierarchy.

 

Cantalamessa's likening the accusations to the Holocaust rankled U.S. Jewish leaders.

 

"Shame on Father Cantalamessa," said Elan Steinberg, vice president of the American Gathering of Holocaust Survivors and their Descendants, in a statement. "The Vatican is entitled to defend itself, but the comparison with anti-Semitic persecution is offensive and unsustainable. We are sorely disappointed."

 

Rabbi Gary Greenebaum, who said he recently had "cordial" talks at the Vatican with church and other Jewish leaders as part of efforts on both sides to improve Catholic-Jewish relations, sounded dismayed.

 

"It's an unfortunate use of language to make this comparison, since the collective violence against the Jews resulted in the death of 6 million, while the collective violence spoken of here has not led to murder and destruction, but perhaps character assault," said Greenebaum, U.S. director of interreligious relations for the American Jewish Committee.

 

German Jewish leader Stephan Kramer described Cantalamessa's remarks as unheard-of "insolence."

 

"It is repulsive, obscene and most of all offensive toward all abuse victims as well as to all the victims of the Holocaust," said Kramer, general secretary of Germany's Central Council of Jews, in an interview with the AP in Berlin.

 

Painful memories of the strained relations between the two religions were raised earlier in Benedict's papacy, when he favored a revival of the pre-Vatican Council version of the Tridentine Mass, which includes a prayer for the conversion of Jews.

 

Cantalamessa in his sermon said there was no need to dwell on the scandals. He referred to the sexual abuse of children by clergy, saying "unfortunately, not a few elements of the clergy are stained" by the violence. Still, he said, "there is sufficient talk outside of here."

 

A vocal U.S.-based victims lobby, SNAP, reacted scathingly to the sermon.

 

"It's heartbreaking to see yet another smart, high-ranking Vatican official making such callous remarks that insult both abuse victims and Jewish people," said David Clohessy of Survivors Network of those Abused by Priests. "It's morally wrong to equate actual physical violence and hatred against a large group of innocent people with mere public scrutiny of a small group of complicit officials."

 

"The Catholic hierarchy has engaged in and still engages in widely documented, self-serving and ongoing cover-ups of devastating clergy sex crimes. That's why church records are being disclosed, predator priests are being exposed and Catholic officials feel besieged."

 

The Rev. Thomas Reese, an expert on the Vatican based at Georgetown University in Washington, also criticized Cantalamessa's homily as "not helpful."

 

"You know, you wish that people in the Vatican had at least some idea of how what they say will be perceived by an audience outside of the Vatican clergy," he said.

 

Reese added that it's important to note that the Vatican spokesman distanced the pope from Cantalamessa's comments and that the homily did acknowledge children have been abused by priests.

 

Cantalamessa, in a sharply worded pre-Christmas 2006 lecture before Benedict, denounced the "abominations" committed by the church's own pastors and ministers, suggesting it hold days of fasting and penance in countries with a high number of cases of sex abuse by clergy.

 

While Cantalamessa delivered his ringing defense of the pontiff, the church in Benedict's native Germany made the unusually frank admission that it failed to help victims of clerical abuse because it wanted to protect its reputation.

 

Archbishop Robert Zollitsch, head of the German bishops' conference, said clerics neglected helping victims because of a "wrongly intended desire to protect the church's reputation."

[sccsux]

The diversity of life is magical. I just wish we could all see that and stop trying to label everything and everyone!

 

 

The trouble is, I'm not that witty and need something to talk about. Ah well.

 

Find some (non religious) interests (there are many). That way, you'll be able to join in far more of the discussions on here. And will (probably) have a far more enjoyable time on SF.