Gessa Posted April 24, 2010 Author Share Posted April 24, 2010 just as it is probably impossible to prove that gods exist, it is equally impossible to prove that they don't. Believe in a god is an act of faith that some people enjoy. It also acts as providing a set of morals and a way of life. Not sure what the problem is of those people who take it upon themselves to denounce others for having something they want to believe in - as long as there is no attempt to force feed you the religion. Not exactly harming you if joe bloggy bloggs believes in god is it? hmmmm....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted April 24, 2010 Share Posted April 24, 2010 And if there were gods... we expect them to solve our problems and ask why theres disease and hunger and war... An answer to that is gods arent our slaves who we go to each time we want a problem solving. We have to solve our own problems, otherwise we become at best slave masters to gods or at worst, pets. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
epiphany Posted April 24, 2010 Share Posted April 24, 2010 Not sure what the problem is of those people who take it upon themselves to denounce others for having something they want to believe in - as long as there is no attempt to force feed you the religion. Not exactly harming you if Joe Bloggy Bloggs believes in God is it? The main concerns I have is how religion is taught to children and whether people in positions of power are using their religious beliefs to make decisions that have the potential to affect millions of people. It's a layer of perception I would rather people have the courage to strip away in order to see the world more objectively. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonofAna Posted April 24, 2010 Share Posted April 24, 2010 Actually you can prove god doesn't exist, first of all, the following does NOT apply to ALL possible gods one can imagine. If the god is the sun or some nebulous concept like "hope" or "joy" then stop reading. This doesn't really apply. But it's pretty simple to show the God of the Abrahamic faiths, specifically the YHWH/Jehova/God/Allah doesn't exist. This God has the following DEFINITE attributes: 1) Omnipotence: As such e can do anything that is possible to do(and some go so far as to assert that, with God...all things are possible.), constrained only by logic as that he cannot make a rock so heavy that he cannot lift it because, by definition a "rock" MUST be liftable and it would not be so if an omnipotent being could not lift it. 2) Omniscience: God KNOWS all. The Bible and Koran tell us that he knows the future as well as he knows the past and his knowledge is immutable(i.e. If God sees that I will expire in sixty seconds, I will be dead in sixty seconds.) 3) Omnibenevolence: God is "all loving" and all GOOD so that there is no "evil" in God, nor even potential to do evil. 4) God has free will If God KNEW, as far back in time as you can even possibly think of that, that humans would exist and that he himself would create them, then at what point could God be credited with a decision to make humanity? He would have no choice but to do as he already knew he would and create humans or else he would invalidate his omniscience, ipso facto free will lost. To put in other words, God is either all knowing OR has free will but as demonstrated not both. To try and escape this paradox, theologians try and assert God is "beyond time" or transcendent. Why? Mainly because the idea being that if there is no "time" for God then there is no "before" so God can somhow know all and simultaneously make free willed decisions (but they have a habit of NEVER explain how such is even possible or sensible though). But the problem with "transcendence" herein lays: We define "existence", in the context the term is being used (re: things with an independent being as opposed to a conceptual existence) as a thing which both has sense contents (i.e. it can somehow be detected/measured. Otherwise what would it mean to say that it exists at all? I could say that my girlfriend 'Invisible, intangible Angelina Jolie' exists but she can't be detected, but does that mean that I am making love to Angelina when it appears I am masturbating?) and is constrained within linear time. But why linear time? Simple. Without sequence (which can occur within linear temporality), no action can take place. The simple act of 'being' requires a moment in order to be IN! The notion that "God exists" makes not one iota of sense without a span of time for which God does whatever he is doing. And this is even more evident for actions such as "creating". And thus do I show that God does not exist, except as an imaginary thing. You cannot prove that god does not exist. You can prove that things written are wrong. But that is entirely different to proving he or she does not. Your logic is great - as far as your logic goes but you direct your points towards a god who is all powerful. Who is to say that a god is all powerful? And you assume also that there is only one. What about all the small gods? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonofAna Posted April 24, 2010 Share Posted April 24, 2010 The main concerns I have is how religion is taught to children and whether people in positions of power are using their religious beliefs to make decisions that have the potential to affect millions of people. It's a layer of perception I would rather people have the courage to strip away in order to see the world objectively. Not everyone sets out to teach children their religion. There are many more religions than those of orthodoxy. Some people who have faith are quite happy to leave their children to choose their own path through life. As I said - someone having faith is only a problem when it is force fed to those who do not want it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gessa Posted April 24, 2010 Author Share Posted April 24, 2010 OK....may as well say it. I am me, never asked to be born. IT is MY LIFE......I intend to enjoy the life that I was given. I shall enjoy it in my own way. IF some God or other dislikes the way that I live my life....he can go forth and multiply! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gessa Posted April 24, 2010 Author Share Posted April 24, 2010 OK....may as well say it. I am me, never asked to be born. IT is MY LIFE......I intend to enjoy the life that I was given. I shall enjoy it in my own way. IF some God or other dislikes the way that I live my life....he can go forth and multiply! .................................................. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonofAna Posted April 24, 2010 Share Posted April 24, 2010 OK....may as well say it. I am me, never asked to be born. IT is MY LIFE......I intend to enjoy the life that I was given. I shall enjoy it in my own way. IF some God or other dislikes the way that I live my life....he can go forth and multiply! Or maybe he or she dislikes the way you live your life and so does something about it, and makes you believe that it is your choice? Perhaps we are all rats in a maze? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jabberwocky Posted April 24, 2010 Share Posted April 24, 2010 What if there was a god and... it was a woman. Jesus wept... Bloody hell... I`m buggered. I might as well grab a trident right now and head downwards to stoke a few fires. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gessa Posted April 24, 2010 Author Share Posted April 24, 2010 Or maybe he or she dislikes the way you live your life and so does something about it, and makes you believe that it is your choice? Perhaps we are all rats in a maze? Know thyself comes to mind .:hihi: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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