A question for people who follow a RELIGION.

[DragonofAna]

So you say you were born a Christian, questioned god's good will once you'd seen all the pain on earth, I understand you wanting to believe in god because it does give life a sort of meaning, (which by the way if there is a heaven or hell and its eternal surely also is pointless) but why christianity was it because thats the only religion you know enough about, or do you honestly think you was born into the a family which worshipped the correct god out of the many you can follow. sorry about the commas and bad grammer - its late

 

It was back in the 60'w. Dunno if you was around then but things were very different to today. Kids where I lived did what their parents told them and generally carried on the family ways. My parents were christians; their parents were christians and so on. A lot of children pre-teen do believe what their parents tell them.

 

You misunderstand me. I did not doubt the christian god. I doubted their ideas of the christian god. None of what christians said made sense. So I turned from him and searched out a god who did make sense - hence me finding the religion I have followed for 30 plus years. I do not doubt there is a christian god, but that he is just one of many.

[DragonofAna]

You could argue what is the point of any existence on Earth, since the Sun will eventually explode and die, causing any life on earth to die.

 

There is no "point" to life, it just exists and some seek to justify their existence by leaving their mark on history, or just being philanthropic and helping others.

 

As I continually say - what you wish to believe is your business. I have my own set of beliefs, and through study and reasoning I have become content with those beliefs.

I do believe there is a point to life, and that kicking off this mortal coil is not an end to everything. I am not afraid of death. When it comes I am certain I will be ready to undertake the next big adventure. For you - when you are dead - there is nothing more. If you are happy with that, and happy to believe that nature made a mistake giving you the mind to question, then good for you.

[flamingjimmy]

Do you often do things that are pointless then? Do you spend all your life doing pointless things just for the sake of doing them?

 

No, my life is not pointless, can you please stop trying to put words in my mouth.

 

I just said that my life has a point, but that I gave it that point and it was not decided by some magical external force. The point of my life is to be happy, play lots of guitar, and with any luck leave the world a tiny bit better than when I got here. I neither need, nor want an afterlife.

 

I do not doubt there is a christian god, but that he is just one of many.

Wait what now? You believe that Yahweh exists, but you don't think he's the only god. That's even more silly than Christianity.

 

I do believe there is a point to life, and that kicking off this mortal coil is not an end to everything.

And what reason do you have for thinking this other than wishful thinking?

 

I am not afraid of death. When it comes I am certain I will be ready to undertake the next big adventure. For you - when you are dead - there is nothing more.

It's the same for you too bro. Your consciousness will cease to exist, believing in god will not save you.

 

If you are happy with that, and happy to believe that nature made a mistake giving you the mind to question, then good for you.

What are you on about? Who said 'nature made a mistake'?

[DragonofAna]

No, my life is not pointless, can you please stop trying to put words in my mouth.

 

I just said that my life has a point, but that I gave it that point and it was not decided by some magical external force. The point of my life is to be happy, play lots of guitar, and with any luck leave the world a tiny bit better than when I got here. I neither need, nor want an afterlife.

 

Wait what now? You believe that Yahweh exists, but you don't think he's the only god. That's even more silly than Christianity.

 

And what reason do you have for thinking this other than wishful thinking?

 

It's the same for you too bro. Your consciousness will cease to exist, believing in god will not save you.

 

What are you on about? Who said 'nature made a mistake'?

 

Not exactly sure what purpose you see in attempting to deter me from my faith. You will never succeed anyhow so another pointless event undertaken. There is no reason at all why I cannot believe in numerous gods, and if that makes less sense to you than christianity then excellent - I never expected it to for you.

It does not bother me in the slightest that you are set in your ways - just as I am set in my ways.

I would, however, like to know why you feel it is your purpose in life to have others believe the same as you. This ranks you in the same league as all those religious types who try to force their religion down people's throats. Perhaps you should think about this when having a go at Grahame. A much overworked phrase on here is pot and kettle.

Go preach your side of things to someone who may be interested.

[flamingjimmy]

would you care to expand on this personal meaning? i would love to be satisfied with life as it is, however i see it as just repeating what millions of people before you have done and will do, and all lead to the same fate.

Doubtless there have been hundreds if not thousands of people throughout history who've been just like me in many ways, but what's so wrong with that?

 

i know its probably me being grumpy and should see a therapist. i do however realise that the obvious reason answer would be is to experience them things for yourself, but if its not unique does it need repeating.

 

Also, I don't really see how this is decent argument against materialism anyway. Let's say for the sake of argument that there is some sort of afterlife/heaven. You still have the problem that millions of people before you have lived the same life and gone onto have the same afterlife.

 

You haven't got rid of the problem you've only moved it. And besides, we are all unique.

 

Also, your entire argument to me is kind of just all a bit silly. Your desire to be unique or special in some way is a very common one, but completely unfounded.

 

we should not base our most important beliefs on wishful thinking. We as a species are not special. Do you think microscopic phytoplankton (your xmillionth cousin) have an afterlife?

 

DO you think that plants (another of you x millionth cousins) have an afterlife?

 

Do you think your single celled ancestors from billions of years ago had an afterlife?

 

If not at what point do you think we evolved the ability to cheat death?

[DragonofAna]

Doubtless there have been hundreds if not thousands of people throughout history who've been just like me in many ways, but what's so wrong with that?

 

 

 

Also, I don't really see how this is decent argument against materialism anyway. Let's say for the sake of argument that there is some sort of afterlife/heaven. You still have the problem that millions of people before you have lived the same life and gone onto have the same afterlife.

 

You haven't got rid of the problem you've only moved it. And besides, we are all unique.

 

Also, your entire argument to me is kind of just all a bit silly. Your desire to be unique or special in some way is a very common one, but completely unfounded.

 

we should not base our most important beliefs on wishful thinking. We as a species are not special. Do you think microscopic phytoplankton (your xmillionth cousin) have an afterlife?

 

DO you think that plants (another of you x millionth cousins) have an afterlife?

 

Do you think your single celled ancestors from billions of years ago had an afterlife?

 

If not at what point do you think we evolved the ability to cheat death?

 

I am surprised you cannot see the difference between plants, plankton and humans. Strange that.

Two things - perhaps in the life that follows you are no longer interested in material things and thus do not continue the problem, or alternatively you have new materials to play with and the old ones become obselete.

If we reach a state of evolution where the physical body is no longer necessary then anything physical would also probably be no longer necessary.

 

Who is to say that everything that is or has been will not be again?

[flamingjimmy]

I am surprised you cannot see the difference between plants, plankton and humans. Strange that.

I asked you nicely already to please try to stop putting words in my mouth. I know it's hard for you because your position is very difficult to defend, but please try to ague honestly. I am well aware of a great many difference between plants, plankton and humans (that's why I called the your xmillionth cousin where X is a very high number indeed).

 

Who is to say that everything that is or has been will not be again?

I will gladly answer this and any other questions you have when you do me the same courtesy. The questions I asked in my last post IMO show a huge flaw in the whole idea of people as a non physical entity and you seemed to just flat out ignore them.

[DragonofAna]

I asked you nicely already to please try to stop putting words in my mouth. I know it's hard for you because your position is very difficult to defend, but please try to ague honestly. I am well aware of a great many difference between plants, plankton and humans (that's why I called the your xmillionth cousin where X is a very high number indeed).

 

I'm definitely not trying to defend my position. I have already said I am ecstatically happy that you do not have faith. Excellent and keep up the good work.

 

I will gladly answer this and any other questions you have when you do me the same courtesy. The questions I asked in my last post IMO show a huge flaw in the whole idea of people as a non physical entity and you seemed to just flat out ignore them.

 

You will have to number your questions so that I do not have to have pages and pages of quotes - as has happened on other threads, and then I will attempt to answer. But I am not going to start offering insight into my path. My faith is mine. It's not for you. Tis mine.

[DragonofAna]

Ooo - do you think plants and plankton are self-aware?

 

Just wondered.

[flamingjimmy]

You will have to number your questions so that I do not have to have pages and pages of quotes - as has happened on other threads, and then I will attempt to answer. But I am not going to start offering insight into my path. My faith is mine. It's not for you. Tis mine.

 

My mistake, I thought this thread was to discuss things like that. If that's the case then what is the point in engaging with you?

 

I'm gonna try one more time (I don't think these questions are particularly personal or offensive but if you really don't want to answer them then that is your prerogative).

 

In order for there to be an afterlife of any kind then there must be some non-phyisical component to life. (for the sake of simplicity I will hereafter refer to this as a 'soul', if you call them something else then fine)

 

You obviously believe that humans have souls because otherwise we would just die with our physical bodies.

 

Now we know for a fact that all life on earth has a common ancestry, plants and phytoplankton are your (very) distant cousins.

 

1. (do I really have to nuber questions to get an answer:huh:)I am asking you very simply if you believe that all life forms have souls (including viruses, bacteria, plants, dung beetles, everything)?

 

If the answer is yes then

 

If the answer is no then

 

2. At what point do you think our ancestors aquired souls?