Abdul Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by MichaelTravis Drown 'em all in barrels! And why not? It would save money on prison costs, rehabilitation (sp?), prevent further reoffending... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Dan Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 The root of the problem is that they do it because they get away with it. Then not only do they get away with it, they actually get a day out because of it. How on earth do you see this as a deterrent or life changing experience. It's what it is...... ' a day out for thugs'. Why shouldn't the money for repairing damage they have caused come from their pocket? I *thought* they did it because they were bored/ didn't know any better/ came from disadvantaged backgrounds/ had no money/ problems at home... And I'm middle class supposedly... How can you justify your opinion? Have you had any experience with these 'louts'? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DaBouncer Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by Mo The root of the problem is that they do it because they get away with it. Then not only do they get away with it, they actually get a day out because of it. How on earth do you see this as a deterrent or life changing experience. It's what it is...... ' a day out for thugs'. Why shouldn't the money for repairing damage they have caused come from their pocket? Again Mo with all due respect, you aren't looking outside what you see. You see them causing damage, you see them breaking the law. But you don't see WHY!!! A human isn't born evil or bad (on the whole) they develope that through life experience. You may be the best mum in the worldand your children may grow to be doctors, plumbers or journalists... but on the flip side. Those who know only poverty and 'one side of life' may grow to be thugs, louts, vandals etc. Maybe by showing them that life isn't just crap and that people DO care, then there future actions may be changed. What good will come from showing a child/teen more pain and misery from their actions when thats all they have seen. They'll just do it again. Again, it's the norm to think punish first. But that isn't always the best solution to the problem! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by Agent Dan I *thought* they did it because they were bored/ didn't know any better/ came from disadvantaged backgrounds/ had no money/ problems at home... And I'm middle class supposedly... How can you justify your opinion? Have you had any experience with these 'louts'? I think that I'm well placed to voice an opinion on this one. I could well have been one of these yobs but I'm not. I came from a one parent family, have never set eyes on my father as I was abandoned at 2 months old. Was brought up in rented accommodation with damp dripping down the walls, one cold tap to the property, no bath, ouside toilet (and that was in the 1970's). My mum did all she could workwise to provide for me without a penny from the state. Perhaps she could have got DSS help I don't know but she had a work ethic that seems to be missing in a lot of todays parents. She worked her bloody hands to the bone for me. She taught me right from wrong and that you have to be responsible for your actions. If you do wrong you are punished, simple as that. I was lucky that I had my mum. She was adamant that I shouldn't have the life she did. I went to university and have done alright for myself. So don't give me all that disadvantaged crap because it's just a cop out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Dan Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 I don't believe it is a cop out, actually. You seem to have avoided that course of action, but that doesn't mean everyone else can, or knows how to. There must have been times in your life when you did 'wrong' stuff, or came close to behaving like a 'yob'... no-one's perfect, after all. And if you had been caught, would you have been able to pay for it? Don't forget, it also sounds like your mum really cared for and looked after you, which is not something everyone gets to experience. If she hadn't been there to support you how do you think you might have turned out? This is hypothetical, of course, ad I am just trying to get you to think about it a different way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Dan Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 I think what I'm trying to get at is this: "what is the motivation for vandalsim?" If it was just "because they could get away with it" then there's be all sorts of other things they can do not just vandalsim... There has to be more to it than that (even if the 'louts' are unaware of the reasons themselves) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Mo You obviously had a mother who loved you Lucky you That is what made the difference, that is why you "turned out well" The kids causing the most trouble tend to be physically abused, neglected and angry youngsters There would be two ways to stop them behaving badly 1. make their mums love them too (let me know how you get on with that will you) 2. change something about their life so that they can stop feeling angry, cheated and sure that everybody else in the world is getting something they are not err....that's it You can punish people, beat them, take money off them, lock them up, all sorts of things, but none of those change behaviour or change lives, they just reinforce the original feeling the youngsters have They stop committing crime when they stop feeling like an under dog QED Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cycleracer Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Not all yobs come from disadvantaged homes or abusive parents, some have good parents who are pulling there hair out because there offspring choose to go down the crime path. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 very very very very rarely - ask a Probation Officer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
max Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 One other thing that is missing from all the lock 'em up arguments is that these 'treats' are not handed out on a whim. They are determined by professionals who have studied the subject at university, worked with juveniles, studied systems throughout the world and, more than likely, written erudite papers on the subject of juvenile delinquency. They it is who have discovered that the re-offending rates of people who have been treated to a more 'caring' regime is far lower than the rates of people who have been incarcerated. Speaking personally, I would far rather trust their judgement than that of the Telegraph journo who has a, not very hidden, agenda. Additionally, as I said in an earlier post, the reason these professionals are listened to by successive governments is that it is cheaper to prevent crime than it is to punish it. These jollies were being handed out during the tory era too and the tories certainly didn't condone caring solutions unless there was a financial return. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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