Zamo Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 These kids do it because it is a "buzz". They get a rush of adrenaline and get to look big in front of their mates. Half of them are plastic, wannabe gangsters who think being "bad" is the smart and easy way to get on and the other half are the ones who go along with the others to "fit in". Being soft is not the answer and rewarding criminals to "show we care" is just plain stupid. All this does is make these kids feel even more untouchable and powerful. It will not discourage them from doing criminal things - it will actually encourage them. The courts should indeed get tougher and the kids, and their parents, should be made to financially pay for their crimes - on top of any other punishment like community service or prison. If they can't pay immediately then the court (at the time of conviction) should simply issue an attachment of earnings/benefits to automatically reclaim the money. That said, I also think communities need to do more. They need to get together and take some responsibility for tackling problems and not expecting the police to deal with everything. Next time some snotty nosed, mouthy yob tells you "you can't prove nothing", remember that goes two ways! It is time people started to help themselves. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agent Dan Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 You can't seriously support vigilantism? Is it the vandalsim of the rule breaking that you're referring to when you mention the 'buzz' they get? There are many other ways of releasing aggression which have the same chemical/psychological result... martial arts for example. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sidla Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 I blame the parents, but since I'm not one I don't know if that's a fair assessment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mo Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by Belle Mo You obviously had a mother who loved you Lucky you That is what made the difference, that is why you "turned out well" The kids causing the most trouble tend to be physically abused, neglected and angry youngsters There would be two ways to stop them behaving badly 1. make their mums love them too (let me know how you get on with that will you) 2. change something about their life so that they can stop feeling angry, cheated and sure that everybody else in the world is getting something they are not err....that's it You can punish people, beat them, take money off them, lock them up, all sorts of things, but none of those change behaviour or change lives, they just reinforce the original feeling the youngsters have They stop committing crime when they stop feeling like an under dog QED Belle I'm trying really hard to understand your argument. I accept much of what you say but don't think that this is the right approach. Offspring from bad parents will more than likely be bad parents themselves, so how do we break this cycle. Perhaps some form of parentcraft classes. I don't know. It's just too easy to blame society/unemployment/upbringing for an individuals misdemeanours. At some point people have to realise that they are responsible for their own actions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by Agent Dan You can't seriously support vigilantism? Do you call a plumber every time you have leaking tap? Of course not - you have a go at fixing it yourself. Besides, if the plumber came out and told you his hands were tied without proof that it was that tap that made the puddle, then you're left with one choice - fix it yourself or live with a problem that will only get worse. Originally posted by Agent Dan Is it the vandalsim of the rule breaking that you're referring to when you mention the 'buzz' they get? There are many other ways of releasing aggression which have the same chemical/psychological result... martial arts for example. They get the "buzz" from doing something they are not meant to because it's exciting, risking, daring. I agree, there are plenty of other ways to get such a buzz that don't require breaking the law, making other peoples lives a misery or loads of money. That's why the "they're just poor kids with nothing to do, who need some loving" excuse is b*ll****! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by Zamo The courts should indeed get tougher and the kids, and their parents, should be made to financially pay for their crimes - on top of any other punishment like community service or prison. If they can't pay immediately then the court (at the time of conviction) should simply issue an attachment of earnings/benefits to automatically reclaim the money. But it doesnt work!! It has never worked For two hundred years people have been calling for (and applying) the birch, stocks, short sharp shocks, borstal, big fines, big sentences.... Punitive measures make the victims feel that justice has been done (which is fine of itself) but it doesnt stop kids from committing crime or repeat offending It has never stopped them, that is why even the tough old Tories got rid of Borstals and Boot camps etc It DOESNT work Kids dont expect to be caught anyway so they wont be stopped by the prospect of the punishment Yes they want the buzz, do you think the threat of a big fine will stop that buzz? No of course it wont The only way to stop them is to change them It is as simple as that Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Yes Belle! Of course kids will still do bad things no matter what the potential punishment but that's no reason to reward them instead of punishing them... that's nonsense! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Well it would be nonsense of course, if that was what this is about But it isnt It is about kids who have offended, have been punished and are now part of a programme to try and divert them away from criminal activity in the future They will have been punished, this is an "extra", not an "instead of" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Belle Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Originally posted by Mo Perhaps some form of parentcraft classes. I don't know. Well that certainly would be a very good idea, as part of a big package of all sorts of other measures Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zamo Posted October 21, 2003 Share Posted October 21, 2003 Spot the loony idea... 1. Buy joy-riders nice cars so they don't have to nick anyone elses. 2. Give money to muggers so they don't have to mug people anymore. 3. Take little sh*tbags out for fun days so they don't get up to sh*tbag things... for that day. Of dear, there all loony ideas! :loopy: Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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