ignostic Posted April 29, 2010 Share Posted April 29, 2010 No, Alvin Plantinga has not keel hauled the the logical problem of evil for supernaturalists! We naturalists as David Ramsay Steele, my friend, inquires: if in Heaven there exists free will and a guarantee for no one to do wrong, then why not here. This is no hobgoblin of little minds! In " The Problems of Philosophers: An Introduction," Patrick T. Mackenzie's notes that to claim that Heaven will make up for all the evils and that free will and soul-making are the goals, first one has to adduce the evidence for HIm as all that is irrelevant- ignoratio elenchi. As His putative omni- attributes contradict each other here, we ignostics find Him fatuous. And no one can instantiate Him by defining Him as having those attributes without evidence! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignostic Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 Again, if in Heaven one has free will with a guarantee not to do wrong, then the consistent Creator would have the done here. Thus, God, having no reason not to be consistent erred in His treatment of animals. And one rationalizes greatly should one prattle that no, evolution absolves Him of that blame, for He created evolution, were He to exist! Supernaturalists ever prattle nonsense in order to allow for His permitting evil were He to exist! Plantinga errs in feeling that the unknown defense rallies evidence to the fore for His permitting pointless evils in that he is making an argument from ignorance! His so-called contribution that perhaps He has some unknown reason for permitting those evils thus utterly fails as a possibility to overcome the logical problem from evil. Whilst the problem of Heaven totally eviscerates the appeals to free will and soul-making, William Rowe's the evidential problem from evil can underpin it to show that supernaturalists just flaunt morality and rationality with one rationalization after another. In words, even the second grader above can understand, God, were He to exist, is a big-time bungler by permitting evils when we could have free will with that guarantee not to to wrong as in Heaven! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hodgepodge Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 I think I agree with you, but I'm going to have to have a lie down whilst I think about it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
catzeyesF Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 The problem with the op - gives you a headache. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
carosio Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 if in Heaven there exists free will and a guarantee for no one to do wrong, Where is this guarantee, is it implied or in writing? Does this mean the Devil has a claim under the guarantee? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ignostic Posted September 23, 2010 Author Share Posted September 23, 2010 No, the OP make good sense, but some rather prattle. As no reason can exist for pointless evils, then there should be free will with a guarantee not to do wrong here on Earth. The Eden metaphor explains nothing! They didn't have that guarantee! Yahweh entrapped the two people! hodgepod, pleckhanov can explain all this to the others! This is a serious issue that serious people should evaluate, and the prattlers can go elsewhere to prattle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NoddyHolder Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 No, the OP make good sense, but some rather prattle. As no reason can exist for pointless evils, then there should be free will with a guarantee not to do wrong here on Earth. The Eden metaphor explains nothing! They didn't have that guarantee! Yahweh entrapped the two people! hodgepod, pleckhanov can explain all this to the others! This is a serious issue that serious people should evaluate, and the prattlers can go elsewhere to prattle. OK off you go we'll follow you Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fake Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 Quote "then why not here" Because heaven does not exist yet. Its a condition of living here and how we live our life as to whether we eventually go to Heaven. That's the promise to Christians that Heaven will be placed on Earth. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucifer Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 No, Alvin Plantinga has not keel hauled the the logical problem of evil for supernaturalists! We naturalists as David Ramsay Steele, my friend, inquires: if in Heaven there exists free will and a guarantee for no one to do wrong, then why not here. This is no hobgoblin of little minds! In " The Problems of Philosophers: An Introduction," Patrick T. Mackenzie's notes that to claim that Heaven will make up for all the evils and that free will and soul-making are the goals, first one has to adduce the evidence for HIm as all that is irrelevant- ignoratio elenchi. As His putative omni- attributes contradict each other here, we ignostics find Him fatuous. And no one can instantiate Him by defining Him as having those attributes without evidence! Makes you see red don't it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mickw Posted September 23, 2010 Share Posted September 23, 2010 If the goal truly is "free will and soul-making" why don't we work on it down here before ascending! I find the whole subject to be full of holes, but you would expect that from a script written over thousands of years by various scribes. Most of whom were not christians. If I was religious I would be a Buddist because their doctrine supports making yourself worthy to ascend, then when you do you can be reincarnated as any creature on Earth. Marvellous stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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