Do you want Proportional Representation?

[fishy_taste]

I'm fed up of hearing the Conservatives say that this is not a call by the electorate for proportional represenatation.

 

Do you want proportional representation to replace our current voting system?

 

Yes

 

or

 

 

No?

 

Proportional representation is perfect democracy in theory.

 

In practice it leads to precisely what we have right now - nobody really sure who is actually in charge of the affairs of the country.

 

Given the recent election and the share of the vote, the number of seats per party would have been around 234 Tory, 189 Lab and 169 Lib (lets say approx).

 

Either way, neither party would have anything close to a working majority. So, we would be faced with what we have now - two parties making some sort of deal (or failing to do so and trying another combination).

 

Maybe this might work, for a while, until some major policy issue arose and they both disagree and the coalition is gone.

 

What then? Another election? Possibly. Paralysis of govt for sure.

 

Uncertainty, for certain (ha!).

 

Markets don't like it (look at the stock exchange and the value of the pound - which will increase the cost of fuel [petrol, gas, electricity and so on]).

 

And consider this, the very real possibility that the parties that came 2nd and 3rd joining together to run the country.

 

In this instance, 36% of the population's vote being completely disregarded.

 

At least Mandy and Campbell will get their way and 'stop a Tory govt'! God forbid they get hold of the accounts and publish them so the public can see the actual mess 13 years of Brown's economic strategy has led us to.

 

Better begin to learn Greek, because another few years of Brown/Darling's economic policies and we'll be running cap in hand to the IMF and the EU for a bailout that will lead to huge cost savings (i.e. job cuts) across the civil service.

 

Be sure, this is an economic timebomb that Brown and Darling are gambling will sort itself out in a couple of years.

 

They have taken the nation's finances and put it all on the 50-1 shot in the last race at Plumpton.

 

Fingers-crossed it comes home first.

[Eater Sundae]

Proportional representation is perfect democracy in theory.

 

In practice it leads to precisely what we have right now - nobody really sure who is actually in charge of the affairs of the country.

 

Given the recent election and the share of the vote, the number of seats per party would have been around 234 Tory, 189 Lab and 169 Lib (lets say approx).

 

Either way, neither party would have anything close to a working majority. So, we would be faced with what we have now - two parties making some sort of deal (or failing to do so and trying another combination).

 

Maybe this might work, for a while, until some major policy issue arose and they both disagree and the coalition is gone.

 

What then? Another election? Possibly. Paralysis of govt for sure.

 

Uncertainty, for certain (ha!).

 

Markets don't like it (look at the stock exchange and the value of the pound - which will increase the cost of fuel [petrol, gas, electricity and so on]).

 

And consider this, the very real possibility that the parties that came 2nd and 3rd joining together to run the country.

 

In this instance, 36% of the population's vote being completely disregarded.

 

At least Mandy and Campbell will get their way and 'stop a Tory govt'! God forbid they get hold of the accounts and publish them so the public can see the actual mess 13 years of Brown's economic strategy has led us to.

 

Better begin to learn Greek, because another few years of Brown/Darling's economic policies and we'll be running cap in hand to the IMF and the EU for a bailout that will lead to huge cost savings (i.e. job cuts) across the civil service.

 

Be sure, this is an economic timebomb that Brown and Darling are gambling will sort itself out in a couple of years.

 

They have taken the nation's finances and put it all on the 50-1 shot in the last race at Plumpton.

 

Fingers-crossed it comes home first.

 

Re bold.

 

It's funny how plenty of other countries manage to make it work.

[fishy_taste]

Re bold.

 

It's funny how plenty of other countries manage to make it work.

 

Yes, those that have experience of coalitions. This is the second time in thirty years it has occurred in the UK. Can't recall the last time prior to that.

 

We're already two days in and none the wiser who is in charge (and that's just to get a deal to consider to work together).

 

The only two parties that, historically, have any real chance of working together are Labour and Lib Dem's - 2nd and 3rd in the share of the vote.

 

I do not want a situation where the majority party (both in terms of seats and votes) is superceded by the minority parties who say they can work together.

 

What about the 36% who did not vote for either of them?

 

Democracy?

 

It's like giving the gold medal the second and third in the marathon because their time is combined.

[Longcol]

The only two parties that, historically, have any real chance of working together are Labour and Lib Dem's - 2nd and 3rd in the share of the vote.

 

I do not want a situation where the majority party (both in terms of seats and votes) is superceded by the minority parties who say they can work together.

 

What about the 36% who did not vote for either of them?

 

Democracy?

 

It's like giving the gold medal the second and third in the marathon because their time is combined.

 

Labour and the Lib Dems combined got 4.5 million more votes than the Tories.

 

How would that be undemocratic if they formed a government?

[MadnBad]

Labour and the Lib Dems combined got 4.5 million more votes than the Tories.

 

How would that be undemocratic if they formed a government?

 

That's a daft statement that's like saying that the people who won silver and bronze in a race should group together and claim first place based on the fact that two medals are better than one.

That's not democracy that's usually called idiocy

[Longcol]

That's a daft statement that's like saying that the people who won silver and bronze in a race should group together and claim first place based on the fact that two medals are better than one.

That's not democracy that's usually called idiocy

 

Nobody got to the finishing line. Nobody won.

 

What would be undemocratic about Labour and the Lib Dems forming a government? Between them they have over half the votes and 4.5 million more than the Tories.

[epiphany]

That's a daft statement that's like saying that the people who won silver and bronze in a race should group together and claim first place based on the fact that two medals are better than one.

That's not democracy that's usually called idiocy

 

A poor analogy I'm afraid. Athletes compete as individuals, not as representatives of a popular vote. If 2nd and 3rd form a new entity that represents the constitutional majority of that popular vote, they surely have a mandate to govern. The party lines that formed "1st, 2nd and 3rd" prior to that new formation become irrelevant in such a situation. A new representative body has been formed.

[hard2miss]

2nd and 3rd sounds like the only road for me. Unless the first places want to try and hijack the none voters to their cause, 'they didnt vote because they don't want another labour term'.

[Darth Vader]

so are you going to sign the petition when it goes live again ?

 

I'm going to, but it's going to need a lot of signatures to stop the nay saying MP's from blocking it

 

I hope that I don't have to. I hope that Clegg will have the sense to form a government with Labour (I didn't say Brown!) with a referendum on PR being guaranteed.

 

If he goes with Cameron, he's not going to get PR and he'll also isolate lots of voters, so he'll have no other chance, otherwise.

[Darth Vader]

Proportional representation is perfect democracy in theory.

 

In practice it leads to precisely what we have right now - nobody really sure who is actually in charge of the affairs of the country.

 

Given the recent election and the share of the vote, the number of seats per party would have been around 234 Tory, 189 Lab and 169 Lib (lets say approx).

 

Either way, neither party would have anything close to a working majority. So, we would be faced with what we have now - two parties making some sort of deal (or failing to do so and trying another combination).

 

Maybe this might work, for a while, until some major policy issue arose and they both disagree and the coalition is gone.

 

What then? Another election? Possibly. Paralysis of govt for sure.

 

Uncertainty, for certain (ha!).

 

Markets don't like it (look at the stock exchange and the value of the pound - which will increase the cost of fuel [petrol, gas, electricity and so on]).

 

And consider this, the very real possibility that the parties that came 2nd and 3rd joining together to run the country.

 

In this instance, 36% of the population's vote being completely disregarded.

 

At least Mandy and Campbell will get their way and 'stop a Tory govt'! God forbid they get hold of the accounts and publish them so the public can see the actual mess 13 years of Brown's economic strategy has led us to.

 

Better begin to learn Greek, because another few years of Brown/Darling's economic policies and we'll be running cap in hand to the IMF and the EU for a bailout that will lead to huge cost savings (i.e. job cuts) across the civil service.

 

Be sure, this is an economic timebomb that Brown and Darling are gambling will sort itself out in a couple of years.

 

They have taken the nation's finances and put it all on the 50-1 shot in the last race at Plumpton.

 

Fingers-crossed it comes home first.

 

The reasons you cite are the exactly the reasons it's needed. Other countries with PR seem to do a lot better than us.

 

1. Our governments have too much power and the oppostion has no real power. Someone needs to keep them in check, and only PR would help ensure this.

 

2. Adversarial politics is costing the country far too much. One government introduces policies and then the next undoes them. How much do you it costs to implement them? It's crazy and the country can't afford it.