Longcol Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 It's a nice concept this idea of working together to pull the country out of debt but how would it work in practice? On the one hand you'd have people on the right of the political spectrum expecting the abolition of the minimum wage, further reduction of workers' rights to enable a return to free market principles, removal of higher rate income tax to encourage entrepreneurial enterprise, etc. On the other side of the spectrum you would have people calling for increasing higher rate taxation, further rights for the workers, increase in the minimum wage to encourage buying our way out of debt. Irrespective of the rights or wrongs of these views they are still diametrically opposite and neither "side" can be right when it comes to decision making. Perhaps they'll come to a compromise somewhere in the middle then? Most of us do this on a daily basis on some form or other. Political parties themselves are pretty broad church aren't they? Labour will contain a spectrum from the ones who hanker after the return of clause 4 through to the the Blairite position of virtual non - intervention. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 Working together is the only way to make progress. That involves compromise in lots of ways on lots of issues. Above all it is essential that dogma is put to one side to avoid the failings of the previous government. The new government has said that is their aim so let's see how it goes. I'm certain that it won't be an easy journey, but it is one that we have to embark upon. There will be troubles ahead, rocks and storms and all that, but if the crew remembers that they are in the same boat they can concentrate on the task in hand to arrive safely with fewest casualties. increasing higher rate taxation, further rights for the workers, increase in the minimum wage to encourage buying our way out of debt. Do you think that is really possible? (apologies for the laboured analogy) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tony Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 Hear! Hear! I agree with everything you say above. As RuperBaehr has said, the skirmishes we've had on here between red, yellow and blue have been entertaining and a bit of a laugh. But as you say, we have to knuckle down now and get on with it. There's going to be a lot of nasty medicine for us all to take and VAT is probably going to be just the tip of the iceberg. VAT, and also... Devaluation Interest rate rises Reduced public spending Delays in improving facilities Increased use of existing systems and processes We know it's coming. The light at the end of the tunnel is a high speed express and it's headed our way. With 5 years in place there is little point in kidding the electorate that it's going to be all right if only we keep spending money we haven't got. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rubydazzler Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 VAT, and also... Devaluation Interest rate rises Reduced public spending Delays in improving facilities Increased use of existing systems and processes I highlighted VAT because that was what both Marr and Sopel were ranting about this morning. It was on the tip of my mind when I posted. I'm just doing my own budget sums for when we have to batten down the hatches and wondering whether I can really live without an internet connection or whether it would be better to die now ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Longcol Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 I'm just doing my own budget sums for when we have to batten down the hatches and wondering whether I can really live without an internet connection or whether it would be better to die now ... Don't do it Ruby! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kenny gray Posted May 16, 2010 Share Posted May 16, 2010 cameron ,osbourne and cable said it may take months to sort out how the economic situation was,so how can they now start saying things are much worse?seems like lord ashcroft is starting his spin early. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFKvsNixon Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 The I think this afternoons reports confirms the worries that senior civil servants had about Labour's economic mismanagement. Civil service chiefs lodged formal protests at spending decisions by Labour ministers in the dying months of their rule, the BBC has been told. It culminated in the "nuclear option" of demanding written instructions from their political masters, union leader Jonathan Baume said. There was dismay at Labour's use of public finances, he added. As to the argument that this is Lib-Con spin Mr Baume leader of the First is quoted as saying: "When a permanent secretary asks for their letter of direction from a minister, it is because they feel that a serious decision is being taken, which they feel is not right." More here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/8690312.stm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
andyofborg Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 20% VAT is an obvious - unfortunately change. If I want an item and it's not a necessity, I'll pay 20% VAT. BUT (and here's where I really HATE VAT) I hate paying VAT on labour, because it's 'tax on tax' - consider this: I want a man to cut the grass in my garden. I can buy a lawnmower for 100 quid (plus VAT at 20%). My total cost: £120. We can ignore the cost of petrol, because whether you or I use the mower, the petrol will cost the same. I have a huge garden. It will take you (or me) one day to cut it. 2 choices: 1. I do it. Cost Fuel (but I'd pay that anyway.) My time. (I'd like to have that ... but look at the cost. 2. You do it. You want (in your hand) £100 for an 8-hour day. I don't think that's so unreasonable. £100 is a fair day's pay for a fair day's work; I can afford to pay it (just - I'm not wealthy) and I need the work done. And now (thanks to the government) it all turns to worms. You want 100 quid. I can pay 100 quid. But you have to pay income tax and NI. - That would add up to about 35% on the top, wouldn't it? OK. I have to give you 135 quid. But that's not enough. I have to pay VAT (and we've agreed that the VAT will be 20% [it will be soon enough!] 20% of 135 quid is £27. My bill is now £162. Get real. I wanted you to cut my grass. You wanted £100. That was acceptable, but I have to pay £162. - a 62% mark-up. VAT Destroys jobs. The mower cost me £120. It's going to cost me 50% more again to have somebody use it? Who do you think you're kidding? a company/sole trader only has to register and charge vat if their turnover is over £60000 or so, thats an awful lot of lawns at £100 or so a go. your NI calculations are wrong too, sole traders pay substantailly less NI than employees, for an employee being paid through PAYE there is the additional employer's NI contribution to pay, and if the employee is also a director of the company then the NI is calculated differently too Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truconstruct Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 I see The Spinners are making a comeback. Cracker, absolute cracker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
truconstruct Posted May 18, 2010 Share Posted May 18, 2010 So with this statement you're implying we had an ineffective opposition while Labour where in power. Hardly inspiring in a new government is it? Yes max, lets seek out the bad guy shall we. Its the one who didn't catch the crook. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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