Labour hid ‘scorched earth’ debts

[Wildcat]

Lets put that on context shall we.

 

.............

 

Debt under the Labour government had been growing steadily since 2002, so any claims the problem of debt was caused by the recession are baseless. The recession highlighted the problem, not caused it.

 

The context was clearer on the chart before your misleading additions (like "exits recession" when we are in every practical sense still in one and likely to remain in one unless private sector growth can be magicked out of Tory wishful thinking):

 

Repeated:

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/uk_national_debt_chart.html

 

You can even adjust the chart so you can hone in on the areas of interest. Like this for example:

http://www.ukpublicspending.co.uk/downchart_ukgs.php?year=1950_2010&state=UK&view=1&expand=&units=p&fy=2010&chart=G0-total&bar=0&stack=1&size=m&color=c&title=UK%20National%20Debt%20As%20Percent%20Of%20GDP

 

 

The debt was lower than it was under Major and for most of the period of Thatcher's reign. Indeed the lowpoint achieved by Thatcher had such disasterous consequences for the country her own party rebeled against her and reversed the worst of the damage she had done.

 

There was moderate affordable growth in public spending from 2002 as we invested in hospitals and education.... investments that the Tories themselves understand were needed by their specific ring fencing from spending cuts. Where the trend changes is when the global world recession hit us.

 

Your argument is to blame Labour for a policy and for spending that the Tories are protecting and to make claims refuted by your own evidence.

[Berberis]

The context was clearer on the chart before your misleading additions (like "exits recession" when we are in every practical sense still in one and likely to remain in one unless private sector growth can be magicked out of Tory wishful thinking):

 

I'm sorry, I didn’t know FACTS were misleading to you. What is so misleading about telling people when the UK officially exited recession in 2009? In actual fact I misquoted the date of the UK entry into recession, but our exit was correct as seen below.

 

Ref: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/GDP-Growth.aspx?Symbol=GBP

 

I'm giving people the entire picture and commenting on the data, while you are clipping the data to suite your own agenda. You only quoted the prerecession figures and failed to give the most recent and most damaging figure for Labour didn't you. Do you work for the Labour party as your incompetent fudging of data is so reminiscent of Labour it’s unreal

 

In regards to future spending and budgets. If the coalition is protecting the labour legacy, why is Labour screaming blue murder? Is it something to do with promised, but unfunded loans promised to Labour marginal’s by any chance? If you can somehow predict the future 100%, then feel free to comment, but until you can, I suggest you wait, but I doubt you will as you are an expert on everything aren’t you

[Wildcat]

I'm sorry, I didn’t know FACTS were misleading to you. What is so misleading about telling people when the UK officially exited recession in 2009? In actual fact I misquoted the date of the UK entry into recession, but our exit was correct as seen below.

 

Ref: http://www.tradingeconomics.com/Economics/GDP-Growth.aspx?Symbol=GBP

 

Misleading because it is only public spending that is causing us to move out of recession.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7885727/GDP-figures-UK-would-still-be-in-recession-without-Government-spending.html

 

I'm giving people the entire picture and commenting on the data, while you are clipping the data to suite your own agenda. You only quoted the prerecession figures and failed to give the most recent and most damaging figure for Labour didn't you. Do you work for the Labour party as your incompetent fudging of data is so reminiscent of Labour it’s unreal

 

I clipped the data because the point being discussed was whether public borrowing was responsible for a structural deficit. For that point I only needed the data from 1997 and 2007.

 

It would be pretty stupid to provide data from after the banking crisis and try to present that as a cause, wouldn't it?

 

In regards to future spending and budgets. If the coalition is protecting the labour legacy, why is Labour screaming blue murder? Is it something to do with promised, but unfunded loans promised to Labour marginal’s by any chance? If you can somehow predict the future 100%, then feel free to comment, but until you can, I suggest you wait, but I doubt you will as you are an expert on everything aren’t you

 

I said they have ringfenced the NHS and Education from cuts. The same areas of public spending that were increased post 2002.

 

Labour will have many good and bad reasons to criticise the Tories.

 

An important one as Pat McFadden put rather well is that the haste to cut the deficit is likely to prolong the recession because we aren't yet properly out of it.

 

Another is that the Tories are making the poor pay for the failures of the bankers by the way they are going about cuts and tax increases. The Institute of Fiscal Studies have shown the impact on the poor is 6 times greater than the rich.

 

You don't need to be Mystic Meg to see that the Govt.s policies are based on a wishful thining about the ability of private sector investment to take us out of recession.

 

The IMF this week made the comment: “most advanced economies do not need to tighten before 2011, because tightening sooner could undermine the fledgling recovery, but they should not add further stimulus.”

 

The OBR’s forecast that employment will grow despite public sector cuts and we will see rapid export growth despite the weak position of our main export markets. Is pure fantasy land thinking.

 

The OECD gave a warning too "While the large fiscal deficit makes it essential to focus on cost-effective programmes and target the most disadvantaged groups, labour market policies should remain adequately funded. In this context, it may also be of concern that the new Budget ends funding for two crisis measures, namely, the Future Jobs Fund and the Six Month Offer.”

[Berberis]

Misleading because it is only public spending that is causing us to move out of recession.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/economics/7885727/GDP-figures-UK-would-still-be-in-recession-without-Government-spending.html

 

 

Please do tell how quoting all of the data and stating a fact is misleading?

[Wildcat]

Please do tell how quoting all of the data and stating a fact is misleading?

 

Data after the banking crisis is irrelevant to the causes of the crisis, its inclusion therefore is misleading.

 

It is also misleading to announce we are out of recession when the private sector has not stopped contracting and your point is being used as a reason to cut back on the public funding that is keeping us out of negative growth.

 

1982 High is also misleading... it implies there was a significant low before it. Two years previous the 42.11 was a Low by the same argument and some 8% higher than the economy was under Labour before the banking crisis, where according to the Govt.s narrative there was reckless spending.

 

1975 43.48

1976 44.81

1977 45.7

1978 46.7

1979 43.6

1980 42.11 - missing low

1981 44.40

1982 44.55 - High

1983 43.13

1984 43.59

[Tony]

'Labour's Legacy' video just released:

 

Make of it what you will.