The "coalition cuts" megathread

[Tony]

Straw man argument

[RonJeremy]

Apart from Lord Ashcroft.

 

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/politics/article7046038.ece

 

There will obviously be exceptions - he is not typical of most people - what a stupid post.

 

Anyway if he had done something illegal, wouldn't they have charged him with something by now. You know the lefties that have been in govt for the last 13 years really really hate him, if he'd done something wrong, they'd have got him for sure.

[Longcol]

There will obviously be exceptions - he is not typical of most people - what a stupid post.

 

Anyway if he had done something illegal, wouldn't they have charged him with something by now. You know the lefties that have been in govt for the last 13 years really really hate him, if he'd done something wrong, they'd have got him for sure.

 

Who used the word illegal - tax avoidance is not illegal - it is using very clever lawyers and accountants to stay within the law (just) and minimise your tax.

 

BTW I'm not one of you "soak the rich" types but would prefer a society where people got wealthy through long term investment in manafacturing etc rather than gambling on the stock markets - damn fine job they've done with my personal pension (not).

[Wildcat]

Why not quote Chomsky and Chavez while you're at it.

 

A think tank run by an ex-Washington Post managing editor is too left wing for you?

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_America_Foundation

 

The truth is that right now the very structure of the Euro Zone is what is undermining Europe. So called imported American Neo-Liberalism has nothing to do with it - Europeans invented globalisation before America was invented.

 

Europeans invented globalisation, yes. The US invented neo-liberalism they are not the same thing.

 

Europe like the rest of the world created central banks to deal with recessions. It is perfectly well equipped to deal with this crisis, the problem is as the FT article pointed out that Neo-Liberal monetarist policy has made Europe slow to use the banks to invest in debts when they are low, and slow or reluctant to prop up the private sector through targeted support.

 

Even the Telegraph was reporting the markets running scared on Friday at the austerity measures being proposed in europe.

 

Investor panic hit markets worldwide on Friday as fears grew that austerity measures facing troubled eurozone countries would derail recovery and spark social unrest.

 

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/financetopics/financialcrisis/7733635/Bear-squeeze-as-euro-rises-from-four-year-low.html

 

Are we all agreed that Sweden is a busted flush? If so, can we also agree that Norway is being held up by diminishing oil and gas reserves?

 

Business Week and the WEF seem to think Sweden is far from a "busted flush"

 

http://www.businessweek.com/news/2010-05-09/sweden-finland-most-competitive-eu-economies-wef-study-shows.html

[Wildcat]

I don't believe in wasting my time answering that, on the evidence of your reply posts to truconstruct's numerical evidence (in the context of your own discussion with truconstruct). BTWm, I'm half-French half-Italian, so would know a little bit about this 'stereotyping'

 

truconstruct's statistics didn't show anything and weren't put in any context. Looking at the stats relative to the UK's all they showed was the strength of the nordic economies. The opposite point to the one he thought he was making.

 

I am therefore confused by why you think answering my points is wasting your time?

 

My main point about the stereotyping was that you were using a broad brush to make generalisations without any evidence to back up what you were saying apart from an implicit claim to know better than anyone else.

 

Many many more than that figure between them. Ex-tax inspectors being the first among them (the vast majority serving the minimal 15 years in civil service then retiring and becoming tax advisors to the super-rich overnight - literally!). Seen that at the coal face, during my stint in the French civil service (highest level in regional executive).

 

You may have missed the fact that France went through its own Labour phase (and accompanying taxation policies) since 1981, generating the sort of brain drain and tax exiling not seen by the country since before WWII.

 

Socialism (after a fashion), spending like it's going out of fashion, an economical bust and the jobs/financial/taxation/policies aftermath...seen it all happen before elsewhere, Wildcat.

 

With respect, again you have not given any evidence of anything except that you think your views are persuasive simply through an appeal to your own authority.

 

You have used a lot of words to basically say "you are wrong, I know better because I have worked in france and I am well paid."

 

It is not a very convincing argument.

[1ofTheseDays]

 

 

 

With respect, again you have not given any evidence of anything except that you think your views are persuasive simply through an appeal to your own authority.

 

You have used a lot of words to basically say "you are wrong, I know better because I have worked in france and I am well paid."

 

It is not a very convincing argument.

 

oooooooOOoooooooo!

 

 

[Wildcat]

Your broad-brush assessment appears somewhat incorrect. E.g. as seen in Luxembourg*, Switzerland, South Korea, UAE, Ireland*, Japan* and some US States

 

(*at times depending on marital/familial situation)

 

, besides others countries (depends on whether you class China, Brazil and Argentina as 3rd world or not...I wouldn't).

 

In terms of taxation (personal + corporate), the UK is usually about middle of the road in league tables.

 

It's not how high (or low) you tax, it's how well the tax revenue is used. High tax revenues could be used well or bad, and reciprocally for smaller tax revenue.

 

Depends on too many factors to generalise accurately, such as country size, history, economical policy, population size and needs, number of white elephants, etc.

 

Swings and roundabouts, really.

 

I admit I was using a broad brush. Whilst the US by many standards actually has a low quality of life, I accept that Japan bucks the trend. Japan has a small state.

 

The reason however for Japan's success is that it has much greater equality of pay than other countries, it doesn't require the state to redistribute wealth to bring about the equality that is the key factor in so many quality of life indicators.

http://www.equalitytrust.org.uk/why/remedies

 

In the absence of a business culture that pays fairly however, in europe we have to depend upon the state to redistribute wealth to achieve a better quality of life for all. Perhaps one day that would not be necessary, but until the business culture changes we will have to rely on the state and sensible redistributive taxation to achieve this.

 

You can download the stats separately that make up this presentation, but just skimming through it you can see the correlation between equality and quality of life, whether that be through longevity, lower crime, health, education, obesity, environmentalism or indicators of trust in society.

 

[Tony]

In the absence of a business culture that pays fairly however, in europe we have to depend upon the state to redistribute wealth to achieve a better quality of life for all. Perhaps one day that would not be necessary, but until the business culture changes we will have to rely on the state and sensible redistributive taxation to achieve this.

 

Says who? Where is your evidence?

[Wildcat]

Says who? Where is your evidence?

 

The links in my post.

 

You can get the data used for the presentation off this page

 

https://www.e-activist.com/ea-campaign/clientcampaign.do?ea.client.id=118&ea.campaign.id=6041

[Tony]

Something more than opinion please.