The "coalition cuts" megathread

[I1L2T3]

entrepreneurs have even more of their own money stolen from them (taxed)

 

Taxation isn't theft. If you think it is please explain your theory.

 

It might also be worth you noting that the UK already has some of the lowest levels of taxation in Europe, lower than all the other major economies and just a fraction ahead of Switzerland.

[L00b]

I am therefore confused by why you think answering my points is wasting your time?

back to you later on that, am lacking the time presently

 

My main point about the stereotyping was that you were using a broad brush to make generalisations without any evidence to back up what you were saying apart from an implicit claim to know better than anyone else.

With respect, again you have not given any evidence of anything except that you think your views are persuasive simply through an appeal to your own authority.

I don't generally do the 'here's my links to back my opinion', especially when I post based on direct, personal experience relevant to the context. I'm never desperate to prove a point or 'win' an argument online (unless it's really fun to do so, such as recently with (or rather against ) some BNP poster or other...can't remember who or when, soz).

 

That you don't take it as gospel is entirely expected and your prerogative, yet still doesn't mean I'm going to go out of my way to make or prove a point (it's an opinion based on personal experience, nothing more - what do want? scans of P45s, French tax returns or something )

 

You have used a lot of words to basically say "you are wrong, I know better because I have worked in france and I am well paid."

I don't believe I stated that you were wrong, did I? I provided some additional or contrasting context, which does not fully toe the line with your posts.

 

Where did I say I was well paid If that was in relation to the civil service posting, then that was during my national service, and I was paid the princely sum of...€57 a month, being a second class soldier (when I should have been paid at least €35k for the actual position according to the civil service scale).

It is not a very convincing argument.

Again, it is not an argument, it is an opinion.

[Wildcat]

....

 

That you don't take it as gospel is entirely expected and your prerogative, yet still doesn't mean I'm going to go out of my way to make or prove a point (it's an opinion based on personal experience, nothing more - what do want? scans of P45s, French tax returns or something )

 

I don't believe I stated that you were wrong, did I? I provided some additional or contrasting context, which does not fully toe the line with your posts.

 

Where did I say I was well paid If that was in relation to the civil service posting, then that was during my national service, and I was paid the princely sum of...€57 a month, being a second class soldier (when I should have been paid at least €35k for the actual position according to the civil service scale).

 

Again, it is not an argument, it is an opinion.

 

No worries Loob, it is hard to express the right tone on a forum and I was perhaps a little defensive because of the mindless flak from other posters to some of my contributions.

 

I fully appreciate that whatever anyone says on a forum can only be a part of the story, there simply isn't space especially when dealing with complexities like economics to cover everything. Contrasting and complementary opinions are always worthwhile as a part of that picture.

[RonJeremy]

Who used the word illegal - tax avoidance is not illegal - it is using very clever lawyers and accountants to stay within the law (just) and minimise your tax.

 

BTW I'm not one of you "soak the rich" types but would prefer a society where people got wealthy through long term investment in manafacturing etc rather than gambling on the stock markets - damn fine job they've done with my personal pension (not).

 

The main reason your pension not very healthy is because GB removed the ACT knackering the whole healthy pensions industry.

[RonJeremy]

Taxation isn't theft. If you think it is please explain your theory.

 

It might also be worth you noting that the UK already has some of the lowest levels of taxation in Europe, lower than all the other major economies and just a fraction ahead of Switzerland.

 

Accepted - perhaps a better epression may have been "taken forcibly from them".

[Wildcat]

The main reason your pension not very healthy is because GB removed the ACT knackering the whole healthy pensions industry.

 

That is a tired argument. No one complained about removing the subsidies to Pensions at the time, the markets responded favourably (0.45% rise) and the Tories beforehand had been cutting the subsidy too. Pension funds all throughout the 90s were taking Pension holidays.

 

The failure of the equities markets was an international not a national problem.

 

http://www.stephenbeer.com/Articles/165151/Stephen_Beer/Economy/Dont_blame_Brown.aspx

 

Blaming Gordon Brown for doing something that the Tories quite probably would have done too, is just political point scoring of the dumbest kind.

[Gordonb]

Widcat what do you mean Pension Funds were taking holidays??

[Vague_Boy]

Taxation isn't theft. If you think it is please explain your theory.

 

Say Mr. A. wants to keep all his annual earnings. But he can't, he must (through legal compunction) unwillingly part with some of his earnings.

 

Is that extortion? Demanding money with menaces?

 

Not theft as such, as that is defined as illegally taking someone's money.

[RonJeremy]

That is a tired argument. No one complained about removing the subsidies to Pensions at the time, the markets responded favourably (0.45% rise) and the Tories beforehand had been cutting the subsidy too. Pension funds all throughout the 90s were taking Pension holidays.

 

The failure of the equities markets was an international not a national problem.

 

http://www.stephenbeer.com/Articles/165151/Stephen_Beer/Economy/Dont_blame_Brown.aspx

 

Blaming Gordon Brown for doing something that the Tories quite probably would have done too, is just political point scoring of the dumbest kind.

 

It is only tired because those making the point have been since 1999 when he made his raid on pension funds. It doesn't make it untrue. And by the way many many people complained at the time. It was obvious what would happen, attacking the private sector, the prudent and the hard-working to fund the feckless and the wasteful public sector.

Before 1999 the UK had world class private pensions destroyed by gordon's direct intervention and his mismanagement of the economy. Squandering an excellent legacy.

[Wildcat]

It is only tired because those making the point have been since 1999 when he made his raid on pension funds. It doesn't make it untrue. And by the way many many people complained at the time. It was obvious what would happen, attacking the private sector, the prudent and the hard-working to fund the feckless and the wasteful public sector.

Before 1999 the UK had world class private pensions destroyed by gordon's direct intervention and his mismanagement of the economy. Squandering an excellent legacy.

 

If the private sector is so good, then why did it need the subsidy from the Govt that Gordon Brown took away? And why should the Govt and tax-payers be subsidising private sector pensions anyway when the pension companies were taking holidays in payments and just transferring the money to their shareholders whilst robbing the scheme members?

 

The Pensions crisis in the UK highlights the failure of the private sector Pensions bankers to manage itself.