The petulance of atheism

[HeadingNorth]

You seem to have misunderstood the point if there was no concept of god then you cannot disbelieve in god

 

 

That isn't the point. If there were no concept of any god, then you cannot believe in god, therefore you are automatically an atheist. The word probably wouldn't exist, but you would be one nonetheless.

[JFKvsNixon]

Some of the posts after this one of yours are grasping the concept of my statement.

 

You are making a fundamental error of comparing faith with no faith. I agree that a faith in any religion or god does reflect part of your identity and gives you a reason for life.

 

However, to say that the opposite is true for people with no faith is just wrong, my identity is not defined by my lack of belief in religion or god, as is isn't defined by my lack of belief in communism, my identity and outlook is defined by the things that I do believe in.

[HeadingNorth]

JFK's point is summed up in the concept of a privative; a state which is defined entirely by the absence of another state, and does not exist in itself.

 

 

It's quite true that if no concept of God had ever existed, we would not all be going around claiming to be atheists; just as if alcohol had never been discovered we would not go around claiming to be sober. The notion of atheism only arises when the discussion of god(s) is at hand, but it is in fact the default setting, just as sober is the default setting in the absence of alcohol.

[milquetoast1]

It's quite true that if no concept of God had ever existed, we would not all be going around claiming to be atheists; just as if alcohol had never been discovered we would not go around claiming to be sober. The notion of atheism only arises when the discussion of god(s) is at hand, but it is in fact the default setting, just as sober is the default setting in the absence of alcohol.

That's a better analogy than my dyslexia one.

 

Basically when apologists claim, as they often have, "without god there would be no atheists" they might as well be claiming "without alcohol there would be no sober people".

 

[JFKvsNixon]

That's a better analogy than my dyslexia one.

 

Basically when apologists claim, as they often have, "without god there would be no atheists" they might as well be claiming "without alcohol there would be no sober people".

 

 

I like your analogy. So what Harvey19 is fact saying is that without god, we wouldn't have the label atheism.

[JFKvsNixon]

No, we wouldn't have the label, because the label wouldn't exist, but that is what everyone would be, just without the label.

 

Sorry, typo, should have put 'wouldn't' in stead of 'would', changed post now.

[Grahame]

I like your analogy. So what Harvey19 is fact saying is that without god, we wouldn't have the label atheism.

 

No, we wouldn't have the label, because the label wouldn't exist, but that is what everyone would be, just without the label.

 

Run this past me again will you.

 

You are saying without God the label atheist would not exist. But the label does exist, so that means according to your reasoning God exists?

[Number Six]

Run this past me again will you.

 

You are saying without God the label atheist would not exist. But the label does exist, so that means according to your reasoning God exists?

 

In order for the term 'atheist' to mean anything other than 'person' there must be a concept of God. Not an actual God, just the idea of one.

 

Also, the reverse of an argument is not necessarily also true.

 

For example just because the statement "all Ford cars are blue" is true (assume it is for this example) it does not follow that "all blue cars are Fords"

[Grahame]

In order for the term 'atheist' to mean anything other than 'person' there must be a concept of God. Not an actual God, just the idea of one.

 

So you have got the idea then.

 

Do you know something, so have I.

[Number Six]

So you have got the idea then.

 

Do you know something, so have I.

 

I understand that there is a concept of God, yes. There are many conceptual ideas I don't believe in, such as Puff the Magic Dragon, fairies and astrology.