Council offering jobs not open to all applicants

[Wildcat]

I'm surprised a training opportunity of 2 years can afford to pay £18k per year.

 

source

 

Then consider graduates have to pay for their degrees.

 

This is a graduate training opportunity at a management level you would expect it to pay above the minimum wage. £18k pa is pretty low for a graduate and probably about the minimum for a graduate trainee. There are suits to pay for, dry cleaning bills travel etc. and that money won't go very far at all, when they spend their time travelling, working long hours (no doubt involving studying in their own time) and grabbing snacks at stations to keep them going.

 

If it's a training opportunity then surely all graduates regardless of race should be entitled to opportunities paying so well.

 

There are not many permanent jobs around any more, seldom do you see a 'job for life' advertised.

 

Since 1976 it has been possible to target training for ethnic minorities to redress imbalances. It is described as positive action.

 

That is true, since the recession I expect most positions have been offered on a fixed term basis to cover specific short term roles so the Councils can manage headcount and reduce staff when they need to. Fixed term employees can however apply for permanent jobs internally as they arise, something these people will be unable to do because they are on a trainee programme.

 

As the spokesman for the council points out:

 

'It is also worth remembering that this is a training position - at the end of the two years there is no guarantee of work and the successful candidates would have to apply for a job with the council in the usual way on the open market.'

 

How should the council employ people?

 

Permanent contracts of course.

 

How are they over represented? Any statistics on this you'd care to link to.

 

The Mail gives figures:

 

Bristol council has 9,000 members of staff, not including teachers, of which 630, or seven per cent, are from ethnic minorities.

 

Because 12 per cent of Bristol residents come from minority backgrounds the council has begun trying to redress this imbalance.

 

They are under-represented by around than 50%. ((12-5)/12))

 

I suspect the under representation is even higher as you look up the grade scales.

 

An organization should not automatically represent it's community. It should slowly change over time with the dynamics of the community.

If 100 people apply for a job each of them of equal ability, each should have a 1/100 chance.

With increased BME population we should see an increase in applications for jobs, over a generation/the lifetime of an employment contract, then changes should become apparent.

 

Or do you suggest we replace white peoples jobs with BME staff to make companies equally representative of the communities they serve, instead of allowing equal chance to get a job/very well paid training opportunities.

 

We are talking about 2 posts here out of the 9,000 employed by the Council.

 

You have gone from a what is a minor attempt to adjust an imbalance to talking about positive discrimination to get the Council to reflect its community in one big bang! That is not what is happening or even remotely like the situation in the article.

 

These are trainee opportunities, not fixed term employees with rights to apply internally for permanent positions. After the 2 years are up they will have to apply for jobs on the same basis as anyone else. The Council will no doubt be hoping that the investment in the training will enable them to apply for managerial positions on the Council, but they will do so on an equal basis.

[chem1st]

This is a graduate training opportunity at a management level you would expect it to pay above the minimum wage. £18k pa is pretty low for a graduate and probably about the minimum for a graduate trainee. There are suits to pay for, dry cleaning bills travel etc. and that money won't go very far at all, when they spend their time travelling, working long hours (no doubt involving studying in their own time) and grabbing snacks at stations to keep them going.

It's not the minimum, it is probably above average.

 

Since 1976 it has been possible to target training for ethnic minorities to redress imbalances. It is described as positive action.

 

That is true, since the recession I expect most positions have been offered on a fixed term basis to cover specific short term roles so the Councils can manage headcount and reduce staff when they need to. Fixed term employees can however apply for permanent jobs internally as they arise, something these people will be unable to do because they are on a trainee programme.

 

As the spokesman for the council points out:

It is blatantly unfair and discriminatory and a wage double the minimum wage is way to much for somebody requiring 2 years worth of training.

The training should be open to all.

 

Permanent contracts of course.

Fair enough

 

The Mail gives figures:

 

They are under-represented by around than 50%. ((12-5)/12))

 

I suspect the under representation is even higher as you look up the grade scales.

They are comparing, the total population make up to an organization's make up, not taking into account important things like staff turnover. They should also be using a more appropriate measure; that of the ethnicity of the working population (those in the age range to work).

 

Logically they should be. The BME population is increasing faster than WME population.

 

Only with full staff turnover in a period of 1 year would you expect the population's changing ethnic make up to be reflected in the work environment.

 

 

We are talking about 2 posts here out of the 9,000 employed by the Council.

1,2,3, 7920. It is the principle!

 

You have gone from a what is a minor attempt to adjust an imbalance to talking about positive discrimination to get the Council to reflect its community in one big bang! That is not what is happening or even remotely like the situation in the article.

Addressing imbalance is done naturally by offering everyone a fair chance.

 

If the BME population remains at 12% proportion, then the organization's make up will increase to that as staff turnover occurs.

 

Replacing white staff with BME ones purposefully is RACIST.

 

These are trainee opportunities, not fixed term employees with rights to apply internally for permanent positions. After the 2 years are up they will have to apply for jobs on the same basis as anyone else. The Council will no doubt be hoping that the investment in the training will enable them to apply for managerial positions on the Council, but they will do so on an equal basis.

 

Equal basis?

 

Having training that was only available to BME people on their side

[splodgeyAl]

A local council had two vacancies. They explicitly stated the posts were only open to black and minority ethnic graduates. Therefore they were refusing to employ white people for these specific posts therefore the title "Local council refuses to employ white people!" is correct.

 

If you are incapable of using the English language correctly I would suggest you refrain from posting till you do!

 

It's also, therefore, discrimination against non-graduates of any ethnicity. Why not highlight that fact in the thread title?

 

Do you include the use of commas in your "being allowed to post" criteria?

[Wildcat]

Only with full staff turnover in a period of 1 year would you expect the population's changing ethnic make up to be reflected in the work environment.

 

But that does not help anyone does it?

 

Staff turn-over is not a desireable, investment in staff means employers should want to retain their staff and the skills invested in them.

 

The down-side of having a stable workforce and high staff retention is that the organisation becomes conservative and doesn't reflect the wider population. A problem that becomes particularly acute at higher grades.

 

Something not so important in the private sector, but is in the public sector where there is a reasonable expectation that public service providers should have a workforce representative of the community they serve.

 

1,2,3, 7920. It is the principle!

 

Which principle? There are conflicting principles: the desire for a representative workforce, the desire for high levels of staff retention, the desire for equality of opportunity. There has to be a balance made between them.

 

In this case selection on merit for jobs for the Council is maintained. There are no detrimental measures to increase staff turnover. Instead we have a small investment in two Ethnic minority graduate training positions. Considering their under representation, the response is by any estimation modest.

[TeaFan]

so are you saying that councils should employ an equal percentage of all ethnic backgrounds so to have a balanced workforce ?

 

 

personally i always thought give the job to whoever is best qualified to do the job - not because they need a certain number of a certain ethnic background to balance the books .

 

So you're not still in the BNP then Derek?

[Suffragette1]

Hence why you keep calling me windy boy.

 

Maybe if you weren't...

 

And me a hysterical man-hating feminist.

[NoddyHolder]

And me a hysterical man-hating feminist.

For feminist, as a man hater, do we read Lesbian ?

[azazel666]

It doesn't seem right to me but the Race Relations Act of 1976 states that "If a racial group is under-represented councils can offer training to individuals from that group".

 

Under the very basis of this law shouldn't everyone be treated equally regardless of colour??

 

If not, can me and my chums get some help from the council to get our place on the taxi driving circuit?

[Suffragette1]

For feminist, as a man hater, do we read Lesbian ?

 

Only if you're an idiot who cannot see past a stereotype.

[NoddyHolder]

Only if you're an idiot who cannot see past a stereotype.

Well if your a man hater as you specified your either celibate by choice or a lesbian what other non stereotype could you be ?