Have we become obsessed with eliminating risk?

[Cyclone]

Would have to disagree with you there. More guns = more opportunity for gun crime (not less as the gun lobby in America perversely claim ...

History proves your hypothesis to be flawed though.

We restricted gun ownership a decade ago and achieved nothing (or less than nothing actually).

And Canadians own more guns per capita than US Americans, but have very low gun crime.

 

"If guns are outlawed, only outlaws will have guns." Therefore if you allow everyone to have guns (the thinking seems to go) then gun owners will no longer only be outlaws and we'll all be safer??? Perverse logic!

Not my argument. So I'm not going to try and defend it.

 

Reducing the ready availability of guns reduces the opportunity for their misuse and this does make us safer.

History would seem to indicate not.

 

I'm suspicious of those who want to use guns for sport.

I'm suspicious of you for wanting to ban things.

What thrill does shooting provide that you [one] cannot get from other sports?

Who are you to dictate what sports people are allowed to pursue.

Are [you] trying to prove what an heroic hunter you are putting yourself up against wild creatures?

Yeah, shooting targets is so heroic, and those clay pigeons, viscous they are.

Try bull-running in Spain if [you] want to match yourself against big dangerous animals.

Nice try, but as already pointed out most sporting use of guns in the UK doesn't involve any wild animal.

[Cyclone]

I don't have a problem with target shooting so long as the guns remain locked at the shooting club. What's the need to take them home?

Maintenance and cleaning.

 

How would keeping it in the club have helped anyway. He'd have walked out with it and shot anyone who tried to stop him.

[spinac]

Maintenance and cleaning.

 

Maintenace & cleaning can't be done at the club?

 

How would keeping it in the club have helped anyway. He'd have walked out with it and shot anyone who tried to stop him.

 

Less likely, less risky than having a gun available 24/7

[spinac]

History proves your hypothesis to be flawed though.

We restricted gun ownership a decade ago and achieved nothing (or less than nothing actually).

 

I suggest a longer trial ...

 

And Canadians own more guns per capita than US Americans, but have very low gun crime.

 

I know. Interesting. I still bet Canadian gun crime would be even less if they had even fewer guns.

 

I'm suspicious of you for wanting to ban things.Who are you to dictate what sports people are allowed to pursue.

 

If only I were in a position to dictate ... until that time, may I express my opinion?

 

Yeah, shooting targets is so heroic, and those clay pigeons, viscous they are. Nice try, but as already pointed out most sporting use of guns in the UK doesn't involve any wild animal.

 

Target shooting is cool. I've tried clay pigeon shooting a few times and really enjoyed it. You've still a way to go to shift my view that guns shouldn't be freely circulated or kept at home.

 

A couple of factors have influenced my view - nearly being hit by a stray pellet from a gun being used in a back garden. Not what we're talking about I know, a pellet wouldn't have killed me, but still an example of the kind of misuse that can and will happen if more guns are being used as toys.

 

When I was a student in Manchester I stayed with a family in Rusholme. There was an argument one night and the son went into the loft. There was a lot of shouting "put the gun down". Holy cr*p I was scared. You see there are any number of reasons arguments get out of hand and people will use whatever weapon is available. I'd rather it wasn't a gun, especially if I'm in the house.

 

Back to the OP. Yes, generally I think we have become obsessed with eliminating risk, but I do think it's a valid thing to do - to try to manage, to minimise risk. I say that as someone who has done any number of dangerous sports. I don't want someone stopping me from paragliding, bungee jumping, white water rafting etc, but I do want the risk to be properly assessed and measures taken to minimise the risk to myself and others.

 

With regards to guns, there are any number of ways people can enjoy gun sports while the risk to gun owners and the general public can be minimised. Keeping guns at home is a bad idea ... again IMHO.

[Dozy]

 

...

 

When I was a student in Manchester I stayed with a family in Rusholme. There was an argument one night and the son went into the loft. There was a lot of shouting "put the gun down". Holy cr*p I was scared. You see there are any number of reasons arguments get out of hand and people will use whatever weapon is available. I'd rather it wasn't a gun, especially if I'm in the house.

 

...

 

The gun obviously wasn't securely stored then and the owner was breaking the law.

 

I had any number of arguments with my dad, without either of us feeling the need to resort to a gun! Neither did either of my brothers, when they had a disagreement with him.

 

I wouldn't imagine many people have shared your experience of a a stroppy kid grabbing a gun and it seems complete overkill to suggest an outright ban on guns in the home, based on the very occasional incident when they are misused.

 

It's like saying we should ban cars because some drivers deliberately run over people, in an attempt to kill them. Or banning axes, because some people have been hacked to death by them.

[garrence]

Yes it does create a problem for the knee-jerk reactionaries, doesn't it?

 

When American teenagers run rampage there's usually six femtoseconds before they start bleating to ban computer games, the Internet and Marilyn Manson.

 

But what shall we ban now? Radio 2? Being a taxi driver? Keeping up appearances in small town England whilst your mind spirals into violent insanity?

[Dogs Of War]

Yes it does create a problem for the knee-jerk reactionaries, doesn't it?

 

When American teenagers run rampage there's usually six femtoseconds before they start bleating to ban computer games, the Internet and Marilyn Manson.

 

But what shall we ban now? Radio 2? Being a taxi driver? Keeping up appearances in small town England whilst your mind spirals into violent insanity?

 

ban everything NOW

 

including breathing :lol:

[Cyclone]

Maintenace & cleaning can't be done at the club?

Have you ever been in a gun club? It probably can, at least a field strip, but it's not the ideal environment.

 

 

Less likely, less risky than having a gun available 24/7

Why? What was to stop him driving to his registered club and taking the weapon? Your idea is completely half baked.

[Jason Bourne]

Yes it does create a problem for the knee-jerk reactionaries, doesn't it?

 

...

 

But what shall we ban now? Radio 2?

 

carrot top is a jerk.

 

Bring back Wogan I say!

 

x

[espadrille]

In answer to the OP..YES.

Understandably when something as horrific as this happens there will be questions asked. Of the police, of the Gun Laws, of the family issues and of the state of the mind of the perpetrator.

 

We, as a a society need to satisfy ourselves that everything that could have been done to prevent this tragic incident happening was done.

Terrible things sometimes happen randomly. The build up of events in someones lives inevitably tips them over the edge sometimes and although it does appear to have been premeditated, it had all the classic traits that occur in human psychology when a crime like this is committed.

A man who appears to have low self esteem, who has previously been attacked, who seemingly had financial worries, although the family insist that there was no dispute over the will. He had the knowledge of the area to outwit the police. He had ownership of the required weapon and he seemed to be in a state of mind that enabled him to disregard the consequences for others and to only think about himself.Of course there is still much speculation of the motive. It seems to me that his worries were simply too great and he saw this as the only way out of his situation, but who can say for sure?

No modification of the gun laws would have prevented this happening.If it hadn't have been a gun, he would have used something else.

 

I am of the belief that was is meant to be is meant to be so, whilst we have to satisfy ourselves that everyone did what they can under the circumstances we need to accept that life is risky and we should accept that as we go out and about in our daily lives.