spinac Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Of course you would. That's exactly why we don't let the victims of violent crime make legislation or run the court system. I was trying to place you in the shoes of a relative of a victim as it appears as if you have no concern over the death of strangers. What was Derrick Bird's business owning these guns? Pest control? Sport? Or a planned attack? "When we were in Croatia he told us, 'One of these days I'm going to get a gun and shoot them all'. Of course, we didn't believe him. We told him not to be so stupid," said Mr Cullen. Cumbria shooting: Derrick Bird 'warned of plan to settle grudges' http://www.metro.co.uk/news/829507-cumbria-shooting-derrick-bird-warned-of-plan-to-settle-grudges Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GordonBennet Posted June 9, 2010 Author Share Posted June 9, 2010 I was trying to place you in the shoes of a relative of a victim as it appears as if you have no concern over the death of strangers. What was Derrick Bird's business owning these guns? Pest control? Sport? Or a planned attack? "When we were in Croatia he told us, 'One of these days I'm going to get a gun and shoot them all'. Of course, we didn't believe him. We told him not to be so stupid," said Mr Cullen. Cumbria shooting: Derrick Bird 'warned of plan to settle grudges' http://www.metro.co.uk/news/829507-cumbria-shooting-derrick-bird-warned-of-plan-to-settle-grudges Classic tabloid tactics to flesh out a story that's on its last legs. How many of us have jokingly said "I'm gonna kill you!" when a partner or mate has done something to embarrass us? No-one would take that seriously as a death threat. But you're taking the thread off topic. This thread is not specifically about the Cumbrian shootings, it's about people's obsession with health and safety and eliminating all forms of risk from life, which of course you can never do. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinac Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Your OP was inspired by the Cumbrian shootings, hence its discussion. >>> Step 1. Statement of intention. "'One of these days I'm going to get a gun and shoot them all' Step 2. Buy gun. I wonder what the gun will be used for? >>> OK I admit it. I'm obsessed with preserving life. You see, I only got one and I don't want more guns floating around (especially not in my neighbourhood!) In general, I'd agree with you, there is a lot of petty meddling in trying to eliminate risk. Specifically on guns, I don't view that as petty. PS I once stayed in Windhoek, Namibia and regularly heard gunshot at night. Was that the neighbour who just got killed? ... or the neighbour just scaring off an intruder? The police don't investigate guns being fired - it's too common an occurrence. My brother in law said you get used to it after a while. Sod that! I want a peaceful life. While we can still keep the lid on gun ownership to some degree, let's do all we can to keep Britain low down on the murder rate league tables. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 I was trying to place you in the shoes of a relative of a victim as it appears as if you have no concern over the death of strangers. Were I a relative, I would know that I had no business demanding the law be changed and that my emotional response wasn't going to help what should be a rational process. What was Derrick Bird's business owning these guns? Pest control? Sport? Or a planned attack? A question for the firearms officer that granted the license perhaps? "When we were in Croatia he told us, 'One of these days I'm going to get a gun and shoot them all'. Of course, we didn't believe him. We told him not to be so stupid," said Mr Cullen. He didn't feel the need to mention this until now though? Cumbria shooting: Derrick Bird 'warned of plan to settle grudges' http://www.metro.co.uk/news/829507-cumbria-shooting-derrick-bird-warned-of-plan-to-settle-grudges And he was told at a hospital that no help was available for him I believe. Many systems failing in many ways, do we scrap the NHS because of this failure though? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 How many died? Multiple school children in each incident, in total far more than the shootings in Cumbria. I suggest you use google if you want the details. Details? Again, google. Something happens illegally, so legalise it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinac Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 I suggest if you want to make a point you do the research! Gun control are useless, the vast majority of killings and gun crimes are committed by criminals (obviously) who possess illegal weapons, at least that's the extension of your logic. The extension of my logic? I'm talking about extending the controls for legally held weapons. What are you talking about? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 If you're that ignorant of current events that you don't know about these things then so be it. The Chinese killings were in the new over the last fortnight. It's you that's arguing that knives and bladed weapons are not used in spree killings, I'm confident that you're wrong and gave you enough details to look it up and adjust your opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinac Posted June 9, 2010 Share Posted June 9, 2010 Hmmm quality contribution! Anyway, I know lots of things you don't know - why don't you go look them up? Here's a clue - it's in connection with guns and mass killings in American schools. Go on, why don't you? Must get out more ... must get out more ... End of the thread??? For me anyway! Thanks for rasing the topic GB, even if we don't agree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyclone Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Ruzhou was the sixth in a string of deadly attacks on Chinese schoolchildren that began in August, when a schizophrenic janitor at a Beijing kindergarten stabbed 14 children, killing one, according to police. A bus driver in Shandong province was executed earlier this month for slashing 24 kids in September; last month, a teacher in Hunan province was arrested for killing four students and wounding 12; two weeks later a man in Beijing was arrested for killing a six-year-old and stuffing him into the school's washing machine Read more: http://www.time.com/time/magazine/article/0,9171,832294,00.html#ixzz0qQvDVRJb This one must have passed you by somehow, maybe because there was no opportunity to ban something in the UK? Or maybe you realise how dangerous knives are now and you'd like them all banned. http://news.bbc.co.uk/onthisday/hi/dates/stories/july/8/newsid_2496000/2496685.stm 1996 - 7 people attacked outside a school. Admittedly it was in Wolverhampton, not Scotland. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
spinac Posted June 10, 2010 Share Posted June 10, 2010 Ah, there we go. A night out and a good night's sleep. D'oh. I'm drawn back into this ... Ruzhou was the sixth in a string of deadly attacks on Chinese schoolchildren that began in August, when a schizophrenic janitor at a Beijing kindergarten stabbed 14 children, killing one, according to police. 6 attacks 1 dead A bus driver in Shandong province was executed earlier this month for slashing 24 kids in September; 24 kids slashed. None dead. [Completely incidentally, I don't believe in the death penalty] last month, a teacher in Hunan province was arrested for killing four students and wounding 12; 4 dead. OK granted a "spree" if you like. two weeks later a man in Beijing was arrested for killing a six-year-old and stuffing him into the school's washing machine No, not a "spree". 1996 - 7 people attacked outside a school. Admittedly it was in Wolverhampton, not Scotland. None dead. This one must have passed you by somehow, maybe because there was no opportunity to ban something in the UK? Or maybe you realise how dangerous knives are now and you'd like them all banned. You're confusing me with someone who'd like to ban everything dangerous and make an attempt to eliminate risk. In this thread I've consistently distanced myself from that position, but rather argued that guns represent a higher level of danger that demand special consideration. Others have argued that guns already receive that special consideration and no further action is required. I have argued that more could be done, that I'm unhappy that the likes of Derrick Bird possess guns when they apparrently don't need them for pest control or sport - that he apparently only held them for one purpose - to carry out his mission of revenge. I think you've failed to demonstrate that knives represent an equivalent danger to guns, so I for one won't be wasting my breath trying to ban them. Guns have been designed as single purpose killing machines which have a secondary purpose of target shooting (practicing to be more accurate when you need/want to kill). Knives are multi purpose tools used to carry out many everyday tasks which could be used for killing sprees but which rarely are. (Why physically entangle yourself with a victim when you can get a machine to kill at a distance?) When we look at risks and benefits, knives and guns are simply not comparable. In any event it's already illegal in the UK to carry certain knives in public ... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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