12% of inmates in UK jails are Muslim, but they are only 1.5% of population

[Suffragette1]

I agree Suff, all the English folks I know who emigrated abroad in the main still support England, the World Cup really highlighted that.

 

These are people very committed to their host country, but naturally maintain a soft spot for the country of their birth.

 

And quite right too but really, to deny the non-English that right and entitlement is well . . . :rant:

[boyfriday]

As I have said to you my friend, these things are things that I do not care about any longer.

The abuse I am getting from rednecks on the other thread I can do without.

 

I enjoy your posts artisan, but a few of them have been quite sensational today in my opinion, which is perhaps why they're attracting the attention they have done

[Plain Talker]

Do you know any non-muslim parents who give their children Arabic muslim names? - If so, how many?

 

In the US, there are many "Jamaal"s and "Hakeems" and people with such like names, given to children whose parents aren't Muslim. Even the Hispanic name, Joaquin is goes back to the Arabic "Wakeem"

 

there's Frank Zappa's son, Ahmet...

 

or the gorgeous Sharif Atkins? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharif_Atkins.

 

The incredibly sexy Queen Latifah (well the name was given to her at age eight by a cousin, actually not her parents)

 

The actor Tony Shalhoub has an Arab name (his parents are Lebanese Christians, apparently) but he is not Muslim.

 

Look at Malcolm Jamal warner? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Jamal_Warner

 

Omar Epps? Shemar Moore ? Kadeem Hardison? Ahmed Best? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Best Shireen Crutchfield http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shireen_Crutchfield

 

 

Yusuf Michael Gatewood? Nyima Funk? Shareeka Epps? Imani Hakim? Arif S. Kinchen?

[Plain Talker]

Apologies:- I made an error:- Omar Epps is a Muslim.

[Bassman62]

In the US, there are many "Jamaal"s and "Hakeems" and people with such like names, given to children whose parents aren't Muslim. Even the Hispanic name, Joaquin is goes back to the Arabic "Wakeem"

 

there's Frank Zappa's son, Ahmet...

 

or the gorgeous Sharif Atkins? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sharif_Atkins.

 

The incredibly sexy Queen Latifah (well the name was given to her at age eight by a cousin, actually not her parents)

 

The actor Tony Shalhoub has an Arab name (his parents are Lebanese Christians, apparently) but he is not Muslim.

 

Look at Malcolm Jamal warner? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Jamal_Warner

 

Omar Epps? Shemar Moore ? Kadeem Hardison? Ahmed Best? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Best Shireen Crutchfield http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shireen_Crutchfield

 

 

Yusuf Michael Gatewood? Nyima Funk? Shareeka Epps? Imani Hakim? Arif S. Kinchen?

There are alwys going to be plonkers, look how many Kylies there are.

[Bassman62]

Apologies:- I made an error:- Omar Epps is a Muslim.

So why didn't you just edit?

[artisan]

Apologies:- I made an error:- Omar Epps is a Muslim.

 

He has all our sympathies.

Poor devil.

[Rupert_Baehr]

In the US, there are many "Jamaal"s and "Hakeems" and people with such like names, given to children whose parents aren't Muslim. Even the Hispanic name, Joaquin is goes back to the Arabic "Wakeem"

 

The Christian patriarch 'Abraham', the Jewish patriarch 'Abraham' and the Arab patriarch 'Ibrahim' have even more in common ... they are all the same bloke.

 

The actor Tony Shalhoub has an Arab name (his parents are Lebanese Christians, apparently) but he is not Muslim.

 

Perhaps there's a clue somewhere in there. Not all Arabs are Muslims - especially the Christian ones. Is 'Tony' a popular Islamic name?

 

Look at Malcolm Jamal warner? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Malcolm_Jamal_Warner

 

Malcolm Jamal Warner is an African American who was named after two other famous African Americans. (Malcolm X and Ahmad Jamal.) It is not uncommon for African Americans to be named after other famous African Americans - and notwithstanding some of the comments made by posters earlier in this thread, my experience of Americans is that they care rather less about the religious preferences of their fellow Americans than do many people in the UK.

 

Omar Epps? Shemar Moore ? Kadeem Hardison? Ahmed Best? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ahmed_Best Shireen Crutchfield http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shireen_Crutchfield

 

 

Yusuf Michael Gatewood? Nyima Funk? Shareeka Epps? Imani Hakim? Arif S. Kinchen?

 

 

It's possible perhaps that there are many Americans with Arab names. Just as there are many Americans with English, Scottish, Irish, Welsh, Albanian, Japanese, Chinese, Vietnamese (the list goes on) names. - Because their country was settled by a small group of Europeans (long after the Athabascans arrived) and then received immigrants from practically every other countryin the world. Some of them may have kept their religion, others may have abandoned it - but there is surely nothing strange in them keeping familiar names.

 

To get back to the point:

 

1. The religion (or lack of religion) of the youths who killed Mr Haque is irrelevant (as indeed is the victim's religion.)

2. Spindrift suggested that "the youth's weren't Muslim, they were black youths." Somewhat disingenuous. He seemed to be implying that if they were black, that fact precluded them from being Muslim. That's rubbish. Islam is a religion and as far as I'm aware, it's open to (and accepts converts from) all races.

3. Hamza was the name of an uncle of the prophet Mohammed who was killed in battle. It is not a typical name for a non-Arab non-Muslim person.

 

To go even further back (because the discussion about the religious preference of those two thugs was [iMO irrelevant anyway) I disagree with the argument that 'poverty causes crime'. I do accept that if you are poor, then your poverty may be an added incentive to commit crime (and conversely, if you are wealthy and you can afford anything you want you may even be too damned lazy to commit a crime) but although there is a link between crime and poverty it is not a causal link.

 

People who live in Northern Europe nowadays are far wealthier than were the people who lived there 60 years ago. I was brought up in a poor family (and poor by the standards of 60 years ago.) That did not cause my father to commit crimes. - It made him work hard (he worked 6 12-hour days a week for little money and on the 7th he cultivated a large allotment to get vegetables to help feed us and to sell. He was poor. He dealt in vegetables, not in drugs.

 

If poverty is the cause of crime, then in very poor countries, crime levels must be astronomically high.

 

Not so.

 

There are parts of the US which are pretty poor (parts of New Orleans, for example) but the people who live there are fabulously wealthy compared to those who live in some of the remote parts of Pakistan.

 

You may remember that shortly after hurricane Katrina hit New Orleans (while the news broadcasts were still showing scenes of looting petty {and not so petty} crime) there was a massive earthquake in Kashmir on October 8.

 

80,000 people were killed and 3.5 million were made homeless. Many of them lived in remote areas and it took a while for help to get to them. Those people were pitifully poor before the earthquake struck; afterwards they had even fewer possessions, little shelter and limited medical aid.

 

Did they turn to crime? Did they plunder their neighbours? - Did they hell! - They worked together for the common good and they shared the (very) little they had. Extreme poverty did not cause high levels of crime there.

 

In New Orleans, the looters were stealing colour TVs, Hi-Fi units, refrigerators, washers, dryers and anything else that wasn't bolted down. Some people argued that the looters were 'appropriating' supplies which would have otherwise rotted so that they could survive.

 

Rubbish. They didn't even have electricity sockets to plug the stolen TVs into.

 

Poverty might provide an added incentive, but people commit crimes because the are not prepared to live within the rules set by their own societies. Poverty is not a cause of crime - Greed is another matter.

[Cozmo]

This is one of the oddities of statistics and exactly what they do show and what they could/should suggest.

 

As someone pointed out earlier, there is never going to be an equal distribution accross any survey otherwise we would have something along these lines....

 

Groups such as...

White males

White Females

Asian etc

Chinese

Polish

Irish

Afro Carribean

Christian

Jewish

Hindu

Scientologists...(???)

Non believers Kufars, Heathens etc etc...(Or alternatively, free thinking rational individuals)etc

etc

 

all showing fairly equal numbers, clearly this is never going to be the case as some groups may be ither more "Prone to committing crime, or victims of social circumstances that lead to crime being committed". It all depends on how we perceive the reasons for crime being committed.

 

I think its fair to say that Muslims do seem to get a fair amount of stick as a result of their faith...(And beleive me, Im no more a fan of Islam than I am of any other religion)

Im not sure if there is even an answer to be honest, do we have faith in our legal system or not?

[Bassman62]

I think its fair to say that Muslims do seem to get a fair amount of stick as a result of their faith...(And beleive me, Im no more a fan of Islam than I am of any other religion)

Im not sure if there is even an answer to be honest, do we have faith in our legal system or not?

I've got to agree with you there, the amount of stick that they get is very fair.