White South African farmers/murdered

[boyfriday]

But those are entirely seperate issues to racially motivated murders. Personally I didn't know this was going on in SA until I followed some of the links from this thread. I watch the news every day so this obviously doesn't make the UK news agenda.

 

Well I've known about the 'displacement' of white farmers for many years it often features in the press, but not often on the front pages.

 

AIDS and criminality in SA might not necessarily be racially motivated, but the point I was making was 5 million people in that country carrying that virus rates at a similar level in terms of the media coverage.

[Suffragette1]

ok I'm listening....so these are not necessarily "kill them whites they taken our land" sort of murders as seen in neighbouring Zimbabwe?

 

There is certainly an element of that, however, many are also burglaries which are fuelled by abject poverty. SA has not safety net.

[lizmachin]

ok I'm listening....so these are not necessarily "kill them whites they taken our land" sort of murders as seen in neighbouring Zimbabwe?

 

 

The South African State adopted a policy of forcing white farmers to sell their lands to the state in 2005 at prices dictated by the government and not market forces.

 

Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka wanted the pace of this policy speeded up as in Zimbabwe, where most white-owned land has now been seized by the state without compensation.

 

more worrying...

"There needs to be a bit of oomph. That's why we may need the skills of Zimbabwe to help us," she said

 

So far from condemning what has happened in Zimbabwe, the South African Government admires it, and seems to be heading towards emulating it.

[Bonzo77]

3000!! white South African farmers murdered. Why no outcry at all from the worlds media/governments!

What if white people were murdering black farmers in that number ? What kind of outcry would there be ?

 

What do you think happened when white people invaded africa?? Do you think that the black farmers just said "Here you go Mr white man, take my land?".........

[boyfriday]

The South African State adopted a policy of forcing white farmers to sell their lands to the state in 2005 at prices dictated by the government and not market forces.

 

Deputy President Phumzile Mlambo-Ngcuka wanted the pace of this policy speeded up as in Zimbabwe, where most white-owned land has now been seized by the state without compensation.

 

more worrying...

"There needs to be a bit of oomph. That's why we may need the skills of Zimbabwe to help us," she said

 

So far from condemning what has happened in Zimbabwe, the South African Government admires it, and seems to be heading towards emulating it.

 

I think a common view amongst (some) black political leaders in South Africa is that white farmers were beneficiaries under the apartheid regime, and they believe that seizing this land is redressing any imbalance that was artificially created previously.

 

However, rarely have two wrongs ever made a right.

[boyfriday]

ok I'm listening....so these are not necessarily "kill them whites they taken our land" sort of murders as seen in neighbouring Zimbabwe?

 

Personally I've a slightly different view to Suffragette in that particular respect, undoubtedly black criminals in SA target both wealthy black & white people, however from their point of view white folks are the easier target, emotionally and practically.

[lizmachin]

Forgive me, but I didn't make that claim, my reference to 'indigenous' was specifically in response to chem1st's post about the low life expectancy of South Africans-I attempted to clarify it, because the vast majority of white South Africans have a longer life expectancy than the black ones-'indigenous' was simply a form of shorthand.

 

 

You see you are stereotyping the situation without justification. That simply isn't the case. Although there are many very rich white South Africans there are also very many in poverty. There are white squatter camps just the same as there are black squatter camps. The difference is the government isn't making any attempt to provide accomodation for those in places like Coronation Park.

 

You might like to look over the Rueters slide show before you try to put out the black poor white rich line

http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId=USRTR2C3ZV#a=1

[Treatment]

I don't think that songs like '' Kill the Boer '' help much.

[boyfriday]

You see you are stereotyping the situation without justification. That simply isn't the case. Although there are many very rich white South Africans there are also very many in poverty. There are white squatter camps just the same as there are black squatter camps. The difference is the government isn't making any attempt to provide accomodation for those in places like Coronation Park.

 

You might like to look over the Rueters slide show before you try to put out the black poor white rich line

http://www.reuters.com/news/pictures/slideshow?articleId=USRTR2C3ZV#a=1

 

I'm afraid I dont know what's aroused your patronising tone lizmachin. I'm not 'trying to put out the black poor, white rich line', I've tried to state the facts, whilst denouncing the illegal murder and displacement of white farmers, you appear to have your own agenda.

 

I'm well aware there are poor, white South Africans, I encountered many when I visited in the 80's.

 

However, my post you responded to was referencing the life expectancy of the two groups. White South Africans live much longer.

 

"Although South Africa’s life expectancy statistics can come as a shock to Westerners (in 2003, life expectancy at birth was 46.56 years for the total population), life expectancy for white South Africans is similar to that of most Europeans, Australasians and North Americans thanks to better access to health information, contraception and healthcare, as well as a much lower death rate from murder (the majority of South Africa’s many murders are of non-whites by other non-whites, mainly in the townships)."

 

http://www.justlanded.com/english/South-Africa/South-Africa-Guide/Health/Introduction

 

In other words if you're a black South African you can expect to live about 40 years, if you're white you can look forward to another 35/40 years on top of that.

 

In terms of poverty, the unemployment rate amongst blacks is 28%, whilst for whites it's 4%.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_South_Africa

 

Rather than resorting to rhetoric, the facts seem to support the point I was making.

[lizmachin]

I'm afraid I dont know what's aroused your patronising tone lizmachin. I'm not 'trying to put out the black poor, white rich line', I've tried to state the facts, whilst denouncing the illegal murder and displacement of white farmers, you appear to have your own agenda.

 

I'm well aware there are poor, white South Africans, I encountered many when I visited in the 80's.

 

However, my post you responded to was referencing the life expectancy of the two groups. White South Africans live much longer.

 

"Although South Africa’s life expectancy statistics can come as a shock to Westerners (in 2003, life expectancy at birth was 46.56 years for the total population), life expectancy for white South Africans is similar to that of most Europeans, Australasians and North Americans thanks to better access to health information, contraception and healthcare, as well as a much lower death rate from murder (the majority of South Africa’s many murders are of non-whites by other non-whites, mainly in the townships)."

 

http://www.justlanded.com/english/South-Africa/South-Africa-Guide/Health/Introduction

 

In other words if you're a black South African you can expect to live about 40 years, if you're white you can look forward to another 35/40 years on top of that.

 

In terms of poverty, the unemployment rate amongst blacks is 28%, whilst for whites it's 4%.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_South_Africa

 

Rather than resorting to rhetoric, the facts seem to support the point I was making.

 

 

Perhaps you should try reading people's posts before you resort to the points scoring. I made no reference whatsoever to life expectancy in South Africa. But you appear to want to divert this thread off its topic.

 

I pointed out that there are white and black squatter camps and that in those camps there is little to choose between the living standards of blacks and whites although blacks now stand a far better chance of being housed now that the Government is moving more towards a Zimbabwean style of positive (if that is the right word) discrimination.

 

I think the fact that you visited South Africa in the 1980s is irrelevant to the situation now. It is about as different a country as Latvia pre and post Soviet break up.

 

The fact is that the South African Government did little to condemn the murder of white farmers and seizure of their lands in Zimbabwe, when its actions could have drastically altered the situation. The reason is now becoming clear as a similar situation is starting to develop in South Africa. I was born in the country, lived there much of my life, and visit at least once a year. I don't need someone quoting from Wiki to tell me what is going on there.