White South African farmers/murdered

[boyfriday]

Perhaps you should try reading people's posts before you resort to the points scoring. I made no reference whatsoever to life expectancy in South Africa. But you appear to want to divert this thread off its topic.

 

You're quite right, and it's advice you don't appear to have observed yourself.

 

Life expectancy amongst South Africans was introduced by chem1st, not me.

 

Up to replying to their post I had been discussing the OP and that the media wasn't interested in the plight of white farmers. You perceived some slight from my application of the word 'indigenous', when I replied to their post, even when I subsequently tried to clarify it, so you've had a hand in diverting the thread yourself.

 

There was only one point I was trying to make, that the life expectancy figure that chem1st referred to was in respect of the black population, rather than white farmers, which the thread is concerning, others might have been left with the latter impression, if I'd not mentioned it.

 

If you disagree then I'm happy to discuss that with you, there are really no other points I'm interested in 'scoring'.

[lizmachin]

You're quite right, and it's advice you don't appear to have observed yourself.

 

Life expectancy amongst South Africans was introduced by chem1st, not me.

 

Up to replying to their post I had been discussing the OP and that the media wasn't interested in the plight of white farmers. You perceived some slight from my application of the word 'indigenous', when I replied to their post, even when I subsequently tried to clarify it, so you've had a hand in diverting the thread yourself.

 

There was only one point I was trying to make, that the life expectancy figure that chem1st referred to was in respect of the black population, rather than white farmers, which the thread is concerning, others might have been left with the latter impression, if I'd not mentioned it.

 

If you disagree then I'm happy to discuss that with you, there are really no other points I'm interested in 'scoring'.

 

Yes I can see that this started going wrong because we were responding to 2 different things, and the fact that the black population is not an indigenous population.

 

As a South African I am saddened by the fact that things in the country are not going to plan. But that can be no excuse for murder. Most of the black/coloured population is no more indigenous than the white population and have no more right to the land. Most arrived into Apartheid South Africa as economic migrants because even under Apartheid they enjoyed a better standard of living than they could get elsewhere in Africa.

 

The life expectancy that you referred to is largely as a result of Jacob Zuma's continued denial of the HIV/AIDS virus, and his refusal to act to stem its spread. Life expectancy amongst many groups (particularly black) in RSA is now considerably lower than it was 30 years ago.

[boyfriday]

Yes I can see that this started going wrong because we were responding to 2 different things, and the fact that the black population is not an indigenous population.

Well they're indigenous in so far as negroids make up the original population of the continent of Africa. But my reference to indigenous had nothing to do with the rights of them over whites, it was a simple observation that black life expectancy was lower than white, I hope the term didn't mislead anybody or appear to have any slant attached to it. Could I ask a question lizmachin? I'm assuming from your contributions that you're a white South African?

As a South African I am saddened by the fact that things in the country are not going to plan. But that can be no excuse for murder. Most of the black/coloured population is no more indigenous than the white population and have no more right to the land. Most arrived into Apartheid South Africa as economic migrants because even under Apartheid they enjoyed a better standard of living than they could get elsewhere in Africa.

Well we've run the apartheid argument many times here, all I'd add is that whether blacks were better off or not, they were denied the opportunity to self determination. One can imagine if Abu Hamza found a cure for cancer and was prepared to share the secrets provided he was made prime minister, and the UK adopted Islam, that we'd still prefer to take our chances.

 

And as you point out, whatever the history there's no excuse for murdering people because of it, it's a shame the legacy from the likes of Mandela, Tutu, de Klerk and others has yet to be realised.

The life expectancy that you referred to is largely as a result of Jacob Zuma's continued denial of the HIV/AIDS virus, and his refusal to act to stem its spread. Life expectancy amongst many groups (particularly black) in RSA is now considerably lower than it was 30 years ago.

 

I think life expectancy amongst black South Africans was little better under apartheid rule, however that in no way excuses the mis-management of the present government.

[lizmachin]

Well they're indigenous in so far as negroids make up the original population of the continent of Africa. But my reference to indigenous had nothing to do with the rights of them over whites, it was a simple observation that black life expectancy was lower than white, I hope the term didn't mislead anybody or appear to have any slant attached to it. Could I ask a question lizmachin? I'm assuming from your contributions that you're a white South African?

Well we've run the apartheid argument many times here, all I'd add is that whether blacks were better off or not, they were denied the opportunity to self determination. One can imagine if Abu Hamza found a cure for cancer and was prepared to share the secrets provided he was made prime minister, and the UK adopted Islam, that we'd still prefer to take our chances.

 

And as you point out, whatever the history there's no excuse for murdering people because of it, it's a shame the legacy from the likes of Mandela, Tutu, de Klerk and others has yet to be realised.

 

 

I think life expectancy amongst black South Africans was little better under apartheid rule, however that in no way excuses the mis-management of the present government.

 

 

I am indeed a white South African, in so much as I was born there to Zimbabwean parents. It is no more than an accident of birth bought about because of an African despot. (one of the many).

 

I think my point regarding the situation 30 years ago was not to condone apartheid, but to point out that the migrant workers who flooded into the country did so of their own free will.

 

The county lost its way after Mandela, and regardless of any other faults that de Klerk and his predecessors might have had, they did not deny the existence of AIDs/HIV and as a result life expectancy of the poor black population would be considerably higher now.

 

Life expectancy has inceased dramatically in the last 30 years. In South Africa it has gone down.

[MAMALOCHA!]

I don't think that songs like '' Kill the Boer '' help much.

 

nope doubt this helps cohesion. Julius malema doesn't help spreading his corruption in the mind of the youth

[boyfriday]

I am indeed a white South African, in so much as I was born there to Zimbabwean parents.

Ok, it was only nosiness on my part, I wasn't seeking to devalue your contributions because of it.

I think my point regarding the situation 30 years ago was not to condone apartheid, but to point out that the migrant workers who flooded into the country did so of their own free will.

Yes, I agree that free will was exercised-but under apartheid they had many disadvantages or obstacles placed in front of them in terms of social, political and economic development.

The county lost its way after Mandela, and regardless of any other faults that de Klerk and his predecessors might have had, they did not deny the existence of AIDs/HIV and as a result life expectancy of the poor black population would be considerably higher now.

Again, I wouldn't disagree, but your homeland is a 'new' country that's had huge changes placed upon it in a short period of time. I think Mandela was a great man, and to a lesser degree De Klerk-it was perhaps naive but understandable of the ANC to believe they could dispense with the positive influences of the more liberal members of the National Party during the post apartheid coalition, who had the experience to manage such a large and diverse country, especially in the spirit of cooperation with the ANC.

 

Life expectancy has inceased dramatically in the last 30 years. In South Africa it has gone down.

It's gone down amongst the blacks, and it's a problem that needs serious money and addressing comprehensively.

 

I know we've come away from the awful difficulties facing white farmers, but I think those facing a black population, who from birth can only look forward to 40 years of life perhaps illustrates that it isn't just the plight of white farmers that doesn't make front page news.

[dean1]

""plight of white farmers"" sytematic murder on 9/11 scale boyfriday!

I'm fed up of posters on this thread telling me that it is reported widely, IT ISN'T!! Turn the tables and it would be!

So again my question - why no outcry ?

 

I dont care who they kill, and who's killing who, but please, why aren't the major news agencies/ governments denouncing this from the roof tops as it would if the whites were killing the blacks ??? I really want to know the answer.

Is it because they are scared of being tarred racist? Taking sides ? Heads of these organiastions left wing? etc, etc, why ?

[Suffragette1]

""plight of white farmers"" sytematic murder on 9/11 scale boyfriday!

I'm fed up of posters on this thread telling me that it is reported widely, IT ISN'T!! Turn the tables and it would be!

So again my question - why no outcry ?

 

I dont care who they kill, and who's killing who, but please, why aren't the major news agencies/ governments denouncing this from the roof tops as it would if the whites were killing the blacks ??? I really want to know the answer.

Is it because they are scared of being tarred racist? Taking sides ? Heads of these organiastions left wing? etc, etc, why ?

 

Do you ever look in the 'world news' section of the broadsheets? It is frequently mentioned there, as it in SA, it's all you ever hear about, or at least has been when I've been there.

 

In answer to your other question, it is a highly complex situation rooted in years of a minority white rule and apartheid. The vast majority of blacks in SA are underclass, black crime is rife because of poverty. Many people believed that their lives would transform overnight at the end of apartheid and saw themselves living the lives that their wealthy white counterparts were enjoying.

[boyfriday]

""plight of white farmers"" sytematic murder on 9/11 scale boyfriday!

Sorry what's your point dean1?

 

I'm fed up of posters on this thread telling me that it is reported widely, IT ISN'T!! Turn the tables and it would be!

So what do you have a problem with? How often is the murder rate of blacks in SA reported? Or the daily human rights abuses in China? Three thousand farmers have lost their lives in 16 years, it's 3000 too many, but there are thousands of similar outrages being reported in the inner pages of the broadsheets on a daily basis.

So again my question - why no outcry ?

What kind of outcry are you looking for?Why should this human tragedy be pre-eminent over all the others that are vying for our attention?

I dont care who they kill, and who's killing who, but please, why aren't the major news agencies/ governments denouncing this from the roof tops as it would if the whites were killing the blacks ??? I really want to know the answer.

Is it because they are scared of being tarred racist? Taking sides ? Heads of these organiastions left wing? etc, etc, why ?

 

If you don't care who's killing who, why do you keep predicting what the outcome would be if it were whites killing blacks? Do you know how long it took the world to sit up and take notice when that was the situation in South Africa?

[dean1]

I asked a simple question and wanted a straight simple answer, and you once again boyfriday, like you have many times before, have twisted and changed tack, gone off on tangents etc to turn things round to your way of thinking.

I'm not asking about other human rights abuses etc, my question was strictly on one issue only.

 

This is a FACT -

Whites killing black farmers in SA, world denouncement ! I rest my case and wont be taking any further part in this thread, i have raised the question and i'm happy with that.

I did know before hand who would be jumping in here and what they would spout, thank you for proving me right.