White South African farmers/murdered

[tonkatoy]

a long term denial by the government that HIV causes AIDS, .

 

You've got it.

[boyfriday]

But have they got Democracy? look at Zimbabwe it is about as democratic as the old DDR of East Germany where they used the word democratic although they neve implimented it.

 

I wasn't proclaiming that the present regime is anything like perfect, I was addressing your points about things having been better under the apartheid system.

[lizmachin]

It's very good to see someone who actualy knows the true stuation and says it as it is.

The living standards of Black people in SA were the best in Africa under Apartheid, this was according to figures issued by the UN.

Zimbabwe was the 'Bread Basket of Africa' once look at it now.

 

Indeed Zimbabwe was the 'Bread Basket of Africa. My parents joked that the land was so fertile that you could throw an apple core out the window at night and an apple tree would have grown by morning. Zimbabwe could feed its own population and most of Africa besides, even though the main crop was actually tobacco.

 

My father was a tobacco broker before he was forced out, and the farming was efficient with a proper infrastructure to market the crops. All that has been destroyed. It became impossible to farm as crops were systematically burned after harvest by the "freedom fighters".

 

The irony being that now 80% of white owned land has been seized the vast majority isn't farmed anymore. The land was not given to those who had worked the farms, (many of these were killed) but to Mugabe's supporters, many of whom were not even Zimbos and had no farming experience. What crops are grown tend to rot as there is no infrastucture left to distribute it, and the land is becoming overgrown. It is like living in Tesco's and starving to death because you can't unwrap the packaging.

[boyfriday]

As long as the despot in charge has a black face boyfriday will be a happy bunny regardless of the hardship imposed on the people.

Actually I think part of the problem is that you think my 'black face' somehow devalues the contributions I make to discussions of this nature. You've previously on this thread got hold of the wrong end of the stick with something that I said because you believe I have a particular agenda.

 

It is far better for people to starve and be murdered under Mugabe and for their votes to be ignored than it was to live under a regime that didn't hold mock elections in the first place.

 

No, I didn't say that. I was responding to those who take a snapshot from a long history and come to the conclusion that apartheid was a good thing in southern Africa.

 

This was an earlier contribution, where I was critical of the current regime (I've also denounced the murder of white farmers), as much as I have been the previous ones. It's a shame your rose tinted glasses prevent you from discussing this issue objectively.

 

Again, I wouldn't disagree, but your homeland is a 'new' country that's had huge changes placed upon it in a short period of time. I think Mandela was a great man, and to a lesser degree De Klerk-it was perhaps naive but understandable of the ANC to believe they could dispense with the positive influences of the more liberal members of the National Party during the post apartheid coalition, who had the experience to manage such a large and diverse country, especially in the spirit of cooperation with the ANC.

[boyfriday]

Indeed Zimbabwe was the 'Bread Basket of Africa. My parents joked that the land was so fertile that you could throw an apple core out the window at night and an apple tree would have grown by morning. Zimbabwe could feed its own population and most of Africa besides, even though the main crop was actually tobacco.

 

My father was a tobacco broker before he was forced out, and the farming was efficient with a proper infrastructure to market the crops. All that has been destroyed. It became impossible to farm as crops were systematically burned after harvest by the "freedom fighters".

 

The irony being that now 80% of white owned land has been seized the vast majority isn't farmed anymore. The land was not given to those who had worked the farms, (many of these were killed) but to Mugabe's supporters, many of whom were not even Zimbos and had no farming experience. What crops are grown tend to rot as there is no infrastucture left to distribute it, and the land is becoming overgrown. It is like living in Tesco's and starving to death because you can't unwrap the packaging.

 

What did your parents think about the apartheid regime?

[lizmachin]

What did your parents think about the apartheid regime?

 

 

Zimbabwe didn't have one.

[Highfields]

I don't know, you tell me why as you're such an authority. I would hazard a guess that it has to do with the fact that the majority of blacks are poor and can't afford the drugs, poor education, a long term denial by the government that HIV causes AIDS, a culture that promotes promiscuity, one where men do not consider it macho to wear a condom etc etc.

So sadly for those poor people it's a self inflicted injury brought about by some to make many suffer.

[Highfields]

I wasn't proclaiming that the present regime is anything like perfect, I was addressing your points about things having been better under the apartheid system.

Once again in principal you're 100% correct sadly in practice we've seen the results

[boyfriday]

Zimbabwe didn't have one.

 

Sorry, do you know what your parents thought of the apartheid regime? You and they certainly would have been beneficiaries of it in South Africa.

[boyfriday]

Once again in principal you're 100% correct sadly in practice we've seen the results

 

..and I'll repeat what I said earlier Highfields, none of us would give up our right to self determination or the freedom of opportunity for our children, to an occupying group who offered certain benefits, but restricted those freedoms.