Fishpole Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Originally posted by willman i leave food from kfc for the local foxes, and as nature/animal lovers do not like to think of animals suffering. but i strongly disagree with terrorists dictating what people can & cannot do. Aaargh! This is where I get cross. If foxes are left food in urban areas, they will continue to look for food there. You are encouraging them Willman and interfering with nature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fishpole Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 The ban of hunting with dogs was one of the Labour party’s manifesto promises years ago and it has been long overdue in coming to fruition. There is no doubt in my mind that it was timed to boost their flagging popularity but that said, they have now delivered and I believe the ban contributed to them retaining their government hold. The Countryside Alliance have fought the case but have in reality had plenty of time to review the arguments that they would use against a ban because of the Government’s ineffectiveness at bringing in a ban much earlier. The anti’s state that they are hugely effective in reducing the number of foxes killed during a hunt yet claim around 40,000 foxes a year are killed by the hunt. The pro’s state that they cull foxes on a regular basis in the form of pest control but that the majority of them do actually escape. Conflicting arguments from both sides. Nobody has mentioned the practice of cub hunting happening around August. Training young hounds to kill fox cubs isn’t going to be a skilled and peaceful end to a short life. It’s an age old, barbaric sport that belongs in the archives of a forward thinking country and if I’m viewed as emotional for thinking so, I can live with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berberis Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Dragon, First of all, Sheffield is an inner city, urban area and the poll results will never give a fair comparison to the countries views. The burns report and many other independent studies refuted the claim that the majority of the country wanted fox hunting banned. If I remember correctly, the majority of people where happy for fox hunting to continue under the licence scheme, which I supported. So using this poll as evidence of the countries views is misleading at best. When you say "Hunt saboteurs acted in the only way they knew how to bring the most attention to the plight of these animals." You obviously haven’t heard the story of the horse that has to be put down after a hunt saboteur / animal rights activist had rammed him and his rider in a 4x4. Now I do not claim this as the norm, but over the years Hunt saboteurs have used nothing less that terrorist tactics to force other people to accept their views! For every accusation made against huntsman by saboteurs, there are equal counter arguments. Your unwillingness to prove any argument with facts makes me laugh. All I have asked is for you to back up your learned position so that myself and others may see where you are getting all your facts from. You refute other people’s views for your own even though you cannot and will not back them up Willman, you are an animal lover but eat kfc :shock: I suggest you do a Google search on the suffering caused by that company. The images of them de-beaking chicks are horrible! back2basics, Mother Nature can look after herself, when the environment hasn't been so altered by man. There is little competition for a fox, we no longer have bears and wolves roaming the countryside and farming methods (which before anyone says anything is due to consumer demand) have created a habitat that puts foxes a position they can exploit. Now who ever said "a fox is bigger then a rabbit so therefore it would be easier to shoot a fox" has a laughable lack of knowledge on the animals that live in our own country! A fox has a very good sense of smell, it also has exceptional hearing and can hear and smell you well before you can see it. A rabbit on the other hand is pretty thick and you can creep up pretty close to them before they realise you are there. Plus foxes do not hop along fields eating the new grass shoots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Berberis Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Fishpole, Cub hunting was not widely participated in and I for one would not condone this kind of hunting. I have said before that I am against hunting foxes purely for sport. I am also against stag hunting. I only support fox hunting as a method of pest control over a fox populations that cause problems for local farmers for want of an alternative that would cause less harm to any animal. I am an animal lover, I grew up riding horses and had my own when I was in my teens. I've loved animals since I was small and I have learnt to respect them. Cattle can be very dangerous. If there was an alternative method of control that would cause less suffering I would happily support it. The problem is there has been no alternative method given and many of the people who supported the ban only did so because they had no experience of what a fox is capable of. The mention that a fox only kills what it needs and the frenzied killing view is myth is complete pap. Many people on here will never experience the damage a fox can cause, especially to smaller farmers who rely on selling their free range eggs in local shops. I have seen the damage first hand and its not a petty sight believe me. There will be a rise in numbers over the next few years and this will inevitably cause the rise in town foxes and dog foxes, the latter of which is more than capable of killing household cats and small dogs. Even the French method of contraception for the foxes and I don’t mean small condoms, but food laced with contraceptive backfired with accelerated mutation in other animals within the food chain that fed on the contraceptive laced meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Phanerothyme Posted August 29, 2005 Share Posted August 29, 2005 Originally posted by serapis Even the French method of contraception for the foxes and I don’t mean small condoms, but food laced with contraceptive backfired with accelerated mutation in other animals within the food chain that fed on the contraceptive laced meat. At least with larger mammals it is easier to shoot them with contraceptive implants. With foxes, as you point out, it is nigh on impossible. However, stalking and shooting a fox is not beyond the wit of man; having shot one myself, and I'm not what you'd call a hunter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willman Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by Fishpole Aaargh! This is where I get cross. If foxes are left food in urban areas, they will continue to look for food there. You are encouraging them Willman and interfering with nature. u dont know where i live ? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willman Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by serapis Willman, you are an animal lover but eat kfc :shock: I suggest you do a Google search on the suffering caused by that company. The images of them de-beaking chicks are horrible! . i said i provided kfc for the foxes, usually because i had a family member who worked there & brought stuff home @ the end of the shift. although i have eaten kfc there are other areas of food production just as barbaric. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
willman Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by Phanerothyme As I recall it was in the labour 1997 manifesto, upon which they were elected. It was then passed (hunting with dogs act) in parliament and repeatedly delayed in the lords, without due cause, before eventually passing into law. i dont dispute the law or the labour support for passing the law. however the behaviour of the sabs was terrorism at its basic level. hunts were targetted, hounds were poisoned or scented off, horses were hurt or tripped with barbed wire over woodland "jumps" , hunt members were threatened & suffered from mail threats & abuse. surely this type of behaviour cannot be condoned as acceptable. the law is in place & people can do nothing to repeal it, my opinion however is still the same. dictating one's lifestyle or way of earning a living purely because of emotional responses is more like a dictatorship than a government. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DragonofAna Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Serapis - you cannot say that the country on a whole is pro-fox hunting or does not care about whether they are hunted or not when every poll taken shows a majority against. These have been posted in newspapers and oin television during such debates. I cannot believe for a second that you have not seen them. The fact that you seem hell bent on starting a fact against fact debate does not surprise me. It is already stated that facts can be made to fit anything that is desired - except here we do have a majority against fox hunting unless you quiz 2000 fox hunters in which case your poll will be in facour fo the hunt. So - are you honestly saying you are unaware of the massive number of polls that have been taken over the years? Are you actually saying the law was brought in without the government thinking what the majority of people wanted? If you want facts then you have the entire net to provide them. Stop asking me to do the leg work, and feel free to refute my claims based on the fact I refuse to put up lots of figures that prove zero as far as I am concerned - and that's me believing they would display a majority against fox hunting. You can continue to support fox hunting as much as you like - this being a relatively free country, but that does not make it right. Your sole argument here appears to be on the displaying of facts and figures. Do not know if that is true but the day you get me to put up any facts or figures to support an argument of mine will be a cold day in hell. I go with my heart and my gut feeling, and both of those tell me Fox Hunting is Wrong. Dragon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
foo_fighter Posted August 30, 2005 Share Posted August 30, 2005 Originally posted by back2basics ...We have fox proof fences. Here is one built in 1901 in Australia to cover an entire state! And it's not only fox proof it's rabit proof as well... Yes, we have them, and use them in this country (at least the forestry commission do/did) but they tend to get knocked over and trashed by "the hunt" while they're gallivanting about "having fun". I know, we had to keep putting them back. Originally posted by serapis ...Now who ever said "a fox is bigger then a rabbit so therefore it would be easier to shoot a fox" has a laughable lack of knowledge on the animals that live in our own country! A fox has a very good sense of smell, it also has exceptional hearing and can hear and smell you well before you can see it. A rabbit on the other hand is pretty thick and you can creep up pretty close to them before they realise you are there. Plus foxes do not hop along fields eating the new grass shoots. Actually nobody said that, you've chosen to deliberately mis-quote something to try to make your own point more valid (which it isn't). The point was that both can, and are shot, and I don't understand why some people insist on making the case that it is so difficult, it works all over the world, only in this country do "some people" try to justify "the hunt"... ...and although shooting isn't 100% guaranteed a first shot kill, neither is hunting with hounds, but a good shooter (not necessarily a "marksman") won't loose many, and is on the whole much more conscientious than a few people out for a jolly on horse back. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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