Apology: "Homeopathy is not witchcraft, it is nonsense on stilts"

[llamatron]

But you don't soley fund the NHS, we all do.

 

And, a significant portion of those who do fund it, wish to have homeopathic remedies availabe.

 

Let's guess a figure of say, 1% of the taxed population wish homeopathy to be available on the NHS and, guessing a second figure of say 0.01% of the NHS budget being allocated to homeopathic remedies- I'd argue that that's fair.

 

What seems unfair is a situation where you, get to decide what their money is allowed to be spent on.

 

ok lets put it to a vote, Im guessing 8 pints of beer would beat homeopathic placebos! ergo get rid of the homepathic placebos

[F. Sidebottom]

I've never been a great believer in Homeopathy etc.

 

Then my wife got an illness.

 

Two months worth of NHS prescriptions and she still couldn't get out of bed.

 

One trip to a Homeopath and she was back to normal in a week.

 

I can't say I understand it, but as my wife is self employed, and was losing a lot of money not being able to work, she certainly wasn't putting it on, and she certainly couldn't have faked being 'cured'.

[llamatron]

I'm sorry Tony, but you just don't know what you are talking about, There have been NUMEROUS studies of the efficacy of homeopathic remedies.

 

The assertion that homeopathy is 'nonsense on stilts' is quite plainly an insult to stilts, which do serve a useful purpose in many ways (unlike homeopathy, which is face-meltingly stupid...)

 

:hihi:

[milquetoast1]

It does not work any more effectively than a placebo. That has been proven through clinical trial.

 

The placebo effect works. Homeopathy does nothing more than that. There's no way it should be available on the NHS.

 

I do however believe though that doctors should be able to give out placebos. I even read the placebo effect works when people know they are being given a placebo.

 

Watch the Ben Goldacre NHS video. As he says, surely there are ethical objections to prescribing placebos to patients, since it involves lying.

 

Let's say that a study was set up involving patients with a cancer with a known 75% survival rate, where half of them were reassuringly told that they would be cured with 100% certainty, and it was shown that their survival chances improved dramatically. (It would be unethical to undertake such a study of course, but go with me here, and actually I believe it would improve their chances). Would it then be ethical to tell every cancer patient that they will get better, just because of the placebo effect?

[Cyclone]

I've never been a great believer in Homeopathy etc.

 

Then my wife got an illness.

 

Two months worth of NHS prescriptions and she still couldn't get out of bed.

 

One trip to a Homeopath and she was back to normal in a week.

 

I can't say I understand it, but as my wife is self employed, and was losing a lot of money not being able to work, she certainly wasn't putting it on, and she certainly couldn't have faked being 'cured'.

 

She drank some water and it made her better?

[Cyclone]

Watch the Ben Goldacre NHS video. As he says, surely there are ethical objections to prescribing placebos to patients, since it involves lying.

 

Let's say that a study was set up involving patients with a cancer with a known 75% survival rate, where half of them were reassuringly told that they would be cured with 100% certainty, and it was shown that their survival chances improved dramatically. (It would be unethical to undertake such a study of course, but go with me here, and actually I believe it would improve their chances). Would it then be ethical to tell every cancer patient that they will get better, just because of the placebo effect?

 

The study would be ethical as they would know that they might only be receiving a placebo (in this case the placebo just being false confidence from their physician).

 

Is it ethical to withhold a treatment that has a positive affect (ie false confidence).

 

You end up in a double blind, you can't give them a placebo as it's lying, you can't not give them a placebo as it would be an affective treatment.

 

I've seen one suggesting that so long as the physician is acting in the best interests of the patient it's acceptable to proscribe a placebo (even if that prescription is just an assertion that you'll be better in a few days).

[milquetoast1]

I've never been a great believer in Homeopathy etc.

 

Then my wife got an illness.

 

Two months worth of NHS prescriptions and she still couldn't get out of bed.

 

One trip to a Homeopath and she was back to normal in a week.

 

I can't say I understand it, but as my wife is self employed, and was losing a lot of money not being able to work, she certainly wasn't putting it on, and she certainly couldn't have faked being 'cured'.

You'll have to supply more information for your anecdote to be taken seriously. What was the illness? If it was one that has a poor response to treatment, if there is any at all, and yet will usually go away in due time, then your anecdote is rather uninteresting I'm afraid. If it was a missing leg, then call the Daily Mail.

 

I can supply an anecdote of my own. I know a number of people who deliberately ignored the warnings on the packets of some homeopathy medicines, and took an overdose of 100 times, sometimes 1000 times, the recommended daily allowance ... and nothing happened.

 

Edit: Cyclone, thanks for clarification. Perhaps the validity of my question remains though.

[Kthebean]

I've never been a great believer in Homeopathy etc.

 

Then my wife got an illness.

 

Two months worth of NHS prescriptions and she still couldn't get out of bed.

 

One trip to a Homeopath and she was back to normal in a week.

 

I can't say I understand it, but as my wife is self employed, and was losing a lot of money not being able to work, she certainly wasn't putting it on, and she certainly couldn't have faked being 'cured'.

 

This happened to a chap I know.

 

He had leukemia and went through months of radiotherapy and chemotherapy and even a bone marrow transplant which looked like it wasn't working. Things looked dire.

 

Then a neighbour of his mums did a session on Reiki healing with him.

 

Within a year he was completely better.

 

Amazing. The power of Reiki.

[milquetoast1]

All hail the power of Reiki.

 

[Cyclone]

Reiki is not homeopathy, although it is quackery.

 

The power of placebo possibly, maybe just coincidence. Who can say.