Rupert_Baehr Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 About 8 years ago, I briefly knew of a socialist who was pushing 40 at the time and was swindling incapacity benefits, shoplifting, preaching about his views but not really living up to them and generally being a <removed> to everyone around him. Needless to say, I didn't know him for very long. I would hope that all 40-year-old socialists are not like him. Remember the song: 'The working class can kiss my ar8e, I've got the foreman's job at last ...' Socialism at its finest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Anna B Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Socialism is an economy based ideology and the aim of it is to have everybody who can work in work. However, our economy is flawed and prone to boom and bust. Boom= job creation, bust= job losses. It's not the fault of the workers or potential workers that this happens, it's down to the fact that our economic model is rubbish. Socialism at least provides for the workers when this model regularly goes caplooey. We don't have these debates when the economy is booming, only during recessions when the lucky go into stingey mode and don't want to help those that have been less lucky. Once we re-enter some economic boom bubble again you'll all be able to relax once more. You'll be able to get back to the business of trying to make yourselves richer and ignore the fact that this is a better time to catch benefit thieves because at this point resources aren't overstretched and most people are in work thus providing taxes to pay for it. Good post. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 I think it's more to do with the fact that socialism sounds great in theory but has never worked in the real world, nor can it ever due to man's inherently greedy nature. Look at the last Labour government, to a man they were all socialists at university but look at what corrupt, dishonest, greedy fat cats they became as soon as they got into power! I don't think that's got anything to do with the theory and reality of socialism - more that some people are very adept at saying the right things at the right time, to get what they want out of life. But to be honest, your point could easily be directed at Conservatives. That it's not reveals your own blind spots and political prejudices. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
discodown Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Socialism is an economy based ideology and the aim of it is to have everybody who can work in work. However, our economy is flawed and prone to boom and bust. Boom= job creation, bust= job losses. It's not the fault of the workers or potential workers that this happens, it's down to the fact that our economic model is rubbish. Socialism at least provides for the workers when this model regularly goes caplooey. We don't have these debates when the economy is booming, only during recessions when the lucky go into stingey mode and don't want to help those that have been less lucky. Once we re-enter some economic boom bubble again you'll all be able to relax once more. You'll be able to get back to the business of trying to make yourselves richer and ignore the fact that this is a better time to catch benefit thieves because at this point resources aren't overstretched and most people are in work thus providing taxes to pay for it. How does socialism provide for the workers? What makes you think that resources aren't overstretched? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mister M Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 About 8 years ago, I briefly knew of a socialist who was pushing 40 at the time and was swindling incapacity benefits, shoplifting, preaching about his views but not really living up to them and generally being a b*****d to everyone around him. Needless to say, I didn't know him for very long. I would hope that all 40-year-old socialists are not like him. I'm sure there are plenty of right wingers that fraudulently claim benefits / evade the taxman, thinking that they are above being judged. Being socialist is no bar to having vices. Oddly I find it's right wingers who are the most sanctimonious. Tut tutting as they read the Sun / Daily Mail's stories about benefit scroungers; whilst avoiding paying their taxes Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
horribleblob Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 There's a famous quote that goes something like "The man who is not a socialist at twenty has no heart, but if he is still a socialist at forty he has no head." I suspect Guizot was himself over forty when he came up with that. Sounds like a bit of self-justification to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cavegirl Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 How does socialism provide for the workers? What makes you think that resources aren't overstretched? Well in the UK we have a capitalist economy with some socialist elements inherent within it- the NHS and welfare state are socialist provisions- they are the equal provision of necessary health and living means to all who have contributed to UK society. This is how socialism provides for workers. I think these resources are currently overstretched, but they would not be overstretched if the economy went into a prolonged boom period (following a catch up period) in which few people were using the welfare system and the vast majority of people were contributing to both systems through taxation. This would be a good time to catch benefits cheats- it's just common sense. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pininsho Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Well in the UK we have a capitalist economy with some socialist elements inherent within it- the NHS and welfare state are socialist provisions- they are the equal provision of necessary health and living means to all who have contributed to UK society. This is how socialism provides for workers. I think these resources are currently overstretched, but they would not be overstretched if the economy went into a prolonged boom period (following a catch up period) in which few people were using the welfare system and the vast majority of people were contributing to both systems through taxation. This would be a good time to catch benefits cheats- it's just common sense. Not really. You can't have a 'prolonged boom period'. The economy, like everything else in life is about checks and balances (yin and yang). The bigger and longer the boom the bigger and longer the inevitable bust will be when it comes along as it always does. Personally, I have no idea what a socialist is. I know of some people who have certain socialist ideals who would never consider describing themselves as a socialist but it seems obvious to me that when you hear a self confessed socialist speak they have very little, if any, idea of economic factors and how they work. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
llamatron Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Socialism is an economy based ideology and the aim of it is to have everybody who can work in work. However, our economy is flawed and prone to boom and bust. Boom= job creation, bust= job losses. It's not the fault of the workers or potential workers that this happens, it's down to the fact that our economic model is rubbish. Socialism at least provides for the workers when this model regularly goes caplooey. We don't have these debates when the economy is booming, only during recessions when the lucky go into stingey mode and don't want to help those that have been less lucky. Once we re-enter some economic boom bubble again you'll all be able to relax once more. You'll be able to get back to the business of trying to make yourselves richer and ignore the fact that this is a better time to catch benefit thieves because at this point resources aren't overstretched and most people are in work thus providing taxes to pay for it. Yeah Im well rich with plenty of job security:loopy: if we hadn't been in so much debt before they recession through giving peope free cars laptops houses etc we wouldn't be in so much trouble now. Economic boom times should be used to grow savings for when we get into trouble. As some stupid idiot had got rid of boom and bust said idiot forgot to save! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Norbert Posted June 30, 2010 Share Posted June 30, 2010 Many people would agree with this, because as you get older and wiser your politics naturally move from the left to the right, yet it's surprising how many people on internet forums like this one still haven't grown out of holding left wing views. What's wrong with these people and why haven't they matured like the rest of us? The rhetoric of the defeated! Is the daily grind getting you down old chum? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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