Why do some people never grow out of being a socialist?

[Vague_Boy]

Why do they still believe in equality for all and sharing wealth?

 

I believe in that, that's why I refuse to vote NuLabour.

 

Wealth gap in Britain is wider than ever

[Mister M]

Well in the UK we have a capitalist economy with some socialist elements inherent within it- the NHS and welfare state are socialist provisions- they are the equal provision of necessary health and living means to all who have contributed to UK society. This is how socialism provides for workers.

 

I think these resources are currently overstretched, but they would not be overstretched if the economy went into a prolonged boom period (following a catch up period) in which few people were using the welfare system and the vast majority of people were contributing to both systems through taxation. This would be a good time to catch benefits cheats- it's just common sense.

 

The biggest socialist element is the bailout of the banks.

 

It's all very well the IMF and the like whinging and whining about the need to get borrowing down, but most of the borrowing is due to the large crisis loan given to the banks - following the collapse of Greenspan rhetoric.

[flamingjimmy]

There's a famous quote that goes something like "The man who is not a socialist at twenty has no heart, but if he is still a socialist at forty he has no head."

You've got it all wrong I'm afraid.

 

The actual line makes no mention of political leanings, it is merely about rejection of authority. It is from the film 'swimming with sharks' and is also sampled on the awesome Lagwagon song 'Gun in your Hand', and reads as follows:

 

"Look, I can appreciate this. I was young too, I felt just like you. Hated authority, hated all my bosses, thought they were full of ****. Look, it's like they say, if you're not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains. Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?"

 

I've actually used various parts of it as my signature on this forum quite often, I think it's a cool sounding line, and am interested to see if it will hold true with me, in fact... I might just use part of it again now.

 

As for the whole politics moving to the right as people get older thing. I think that's more of a cynicism thing than a wisdom thing. Wisdom doesn't necessarily come with age, it comes with learning things.

[Cyclone]

The banks were at least partially purchased, rather than just being 'bailed out'.

[Alien]

I think it's more to do with the fact that socialism sounds great in theory but has never worked in the real world, nor can it ever due to man's inherently greedy nature.

 

Look at the last Labour government, to a man they were all socialists at university but look at what corrupt, dishonest, greedy fat cats they became as soon as they got into power!

 

 

So are you defining "corrupt, dishonest, greedy fat cats" as capitalists? and until then they weren't?

 

Power seems to know no political boundaries once you have it...left or right.

[Alien]

You've got it all wrong I'm afraid.

 

The actual line makes no mention of political leanings, it is merely about rejection of authority. It is from the film 'swimming with sharks' and is also sampled on the awesome Lagwagon song 'Gun in your Hand', and reads as follows:

 

"Look, I can appreciate this. I was young too, I felt just like you. Hated authority, hated all my bosses, thought they were full of ****. Look, it's like they say, if you're not a rebel by the age of 20, you got no heart, but if you haven't turned establishment by 30, you've got no brains. Because there are no story-book romances, no fairy-tale endings. So before you run out and change the world, ask yourself, "What do you really want?"

 

I've actually used various parts of it as my signature on this forum quite often, I think it's a cool sounding line, and am interested to see if it will hold true with me, in fact... I might just use part of it again now.

 

As for the whole politics moving to the right as people get older thing. I think that's more of a cynicism thing than a wisdom thing. Wisdom doesn't necessarily come with age, it comes with learning things.

 

Wise words fella.

[onetwo07]

There's a famous quote that goes something like "The man who is not a socialist at twenty has no heart, but if he is still a socialist at forty he has no head."

 

Many people would agree with this, because as you get older and wiser your politics naturally move from the left to the right, yet it's surprising how many people on internet forums like this one still haven't grown out of holding left wing views. What's wrong with these people and why haven't they matured like the rest of us?

 

Only since the dawn of the internet have people had the opportunity to shoot bile quite like this! You really do sound like you could pick a fight with your own shadow.

 

The quote you cite is usually attributed to Churchill (rightly or wrongly, I'm not actually sure), but it is to do with liberals and conservatives, not socialists (Chuchill himself was of course a zealous liberal reformer in his younger years, along with Lloyd George - in fact they laid the foundations of the welfare state). It is of course a gross, but entertaining, simplification.

 

I just wonder how these 'socialists' end up annoying you so much? Do they come round and demand that they should be able to lay a dump on your worksurface since all property is theft?

 

If I were you, I'd head outside and enjoy the lovely sunshine to calm down... (though on second thoughts, you might end up having to share it, or a pavement, or a park bench - and I'm guessing you'd not want to do that).

[flamingjimmy]

The quote you cite is usually attributed to Churchill

 

Is it really?

 

Jesus Christ it's from a comedy film made almost half a century after the man died!

 

According to teh internets Churchill said practically everything!

[onetwo07]

Is it really?

 

Jesus Christ it's from a comedy film made almost half a century after the man died!

 

According to teh internets Churchill said practically everything!

 

As I said, I don't know if it's right or wrong but it is often attributed to him. Churchill was such a prolific waffler (and very good at it too) you're never sure if he said things or not. I'd guess if he did, he'd probably heard it somewhere before (it sounds the kind of cliche that could have been knocking around and being recycled for many many years). I'd be very willing to lay bet that similar things had been said before a late 20th century rock band plucked such a phrase from the air!

[epiphany]

The biggest socialist element is the bailout of the banks.

 

I wouldn't call that socialist at all. A true socialist government would have created or promoted a completely separate public option as a priority and encouraged people to move their money into the mutual sector. What this government did was prop up and provide a lifeline for the current banking system.

 

GordonBennett, socialism is a very broad set of ideas around both economic and social theory. It's not a case of growing out of it, rather taking a detailed look at the different elements that may benefit modern society.

 

Just as we should do (and have done to some extent) with capitalism.