Why do some people never grow out of being a socialist?

[onetwo07]

Is it really?

 

Jesus Christ it's from a comedy film made almost half a century after the man died!

 

According to teh internets Churchill said practically everything!

 

According to wikiquote (again, no God given authority but sounds fairly plausible):

 

"Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains."

 

Often attributed to Winston Churchill. [5], The phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874):

 

"Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head." It was revived by French Premier Georges Clemenceau (1841-1929): "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

[epiphany]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but it seems even hard nosed "conservative" capitalists are having to revert back to their immature political years as they realise that capitalism offers little to no solutions to the problems of unsustainability and disproportionate wealth distribution, both of which are bad for everyone.

 

Surely it is the child who stubbornly focuses on a single bottom line and the pursuit of wealth, a simple concept, as opposed to actually looking how their actions affect society as a whole, which is far more complex.

[GordonBennet]

According to wikiquote (again, no God given authority but sounds fairly plausible):

 

"Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains."

 

Often attributed to Winston Churchill. [5], The phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874):

 

"Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head." It was revived by French Premier Georges Clemenceau (1841-1929): "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

 

This is exactly why I didn't attribute the quote to anyone, as there's conflicting information as to its origins.

 

However, at some point someone did say "The man who is not a socialist at twenty has no heart, but if he is still a socialist at forty he has no head." and that's what I'm wanting to debate.

 

Here's a topical example of a man who's never grown out of socialism.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183873/Bob-Crow-calls-for-strike-action-to-fight-Government-cuts

 

A deluded dinosaur who wants to bully and intimidate his members into following his lead? It's like Arthur Scargill all over again.

[Mister M]

This is exactly why I didn't attribute the quote to anyone, as there's conflicting information as to its origins.

 

However, at some point someone did say "The man who is not a socialist at twenty has no heart, but if he is still a socialist at forty he has no head." and that's what I'm wanting to debate.

 

Here's a topical example of a man who's never grown out of socialism.

 

http://www.express.co.uk/posts/view/183873/Bob-Crow-calls-for-strike-action-to-fight-Government-cuts

 

A deluded dinosaur who wants to bully and intimidate his members into following his lead? It's like Arthur Scargill all over again.

 

If people want to express their opinions by protesting and rallying why shouldn't they? It's a democracy isn't it.

 

I'm glad people aren't gonna take crap lying down. One of the problems with this country is that people are too reticent in voicing their opinion. Probably read too much of the Daily Express.

 

Actually thinking about it, the question shouldn't be 'Why do some people never grow out of being socialist', but 'why don't some people grow out of being Tory trolls'?

[flamingjimmy]

According to wikiquote (again, no God given authority but sounds fairly plausible):

 

"Show me a young Conservative and I'll show you someone with no heart. Show me an old Liberal and I'll show you someone with no brains."

 

Often attributed to Winston Churchill. [5], The phrase originated with Francois Guisot (1787-1874):

 

"Not to be a republican at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head." It was revived by French Premier Georges Clemenceau (1841-1929): "Not to be a socialist at twenty is proof of want of heart; to be one at thirty is proof of want of head."

 

Well furry muff then, I feel silly. I still contend that 'Gun in your Hand' is an awesome song though.

[artisan]

It all depends on the type of person you are.

Leopards do not change their spots.

I was brought up in a white, working class area, Heeley Bottom, and naturally became a white working class socialist, having seen the indignities piled upon the area, and the people of the country at large.

Throughout my youth and early manhood, I was an active trade unionist and socialist, even as an Officer in The Merchant Navy, when most of my fellow officers were ex public school boys.

I am now approaching retirement, and find that my socialism is stronger than ever.

Over the years I have come to accept all races and most creeds as partners in the struggle.

It is just that, as you get older, you get wiser, and do not speak out as loudly as you once did.

 

People who change their convictions, either political, or religious, never really had any in the first place in my opinion.

 

These so called floating (meaning: I am waiting to be told what to do) voters are pathetic, and deserve the pathetic political parties we are saddled with today.

[Mister M]

I couldn't agree more Artisan.

 

I occasionally watch current affairs programmes like Newsnight when they have 'Focus groups' made up of 'floating voters'. The group facilitator talks to these 'floaters' like they are idiots and ask inane questions like 'If a politician was a car, which car would they be'?

[johncocker]

I wonder how many socialist's on sf have ever read oscar wilde's essay the soul of man under socialism.

[Mister M]

I wonder how many socialist's on sf have ever read oscar wilde's essay the soul of man under socialism.

 

Thanks for the suggestion. I've found a link to the entire text so I'll have a read of that later

[Wildcat]

GordonBennett, socialism is a very broad set of ideas around both economic and social theory. It's not a case of growing out of it, rather taking a detailed look at the different elements that may benefit modern society.

 

Just as we should do (and have done to some extent) with capitalism.

 

Something people like GordonBennett do not understand is the impact of Socialist thinking on political thought on both left and right. In the UK the idea of a welfare state, an essentially socialist idea is accepted unquestionably (although we can question the form in which they see it), regardless undoubtably all parties today are working in a landscape a lot more socialist than it was 100 years ago when we had no welfare state.

 

Despite the right wing whiners complaining socialism has failed, the evidence of the last century shows its success.... in this country with the way it is implicit in the policies of all the parties whether they admit to it or not.

 

In the post war period with public ownership of much of the infrastructure of society the country was about as close to the society marx described as any country has ever been, we just did it in an understated way and without any ideological declaration as such, because by then a comparison with Marx would have been pointless we had moved on from then. We after all had our revolution in the mid-seventeenth century.