Prison as punishment or prison for punishment?

[boyfriday]

The low profile prisoners should be made to do hard physical labour, instead of the government paying out on councils to work on roads and that, and cleaning up our streets and getting the graffiti of our walls, Prisoners under guard should have to do it, just like the old days!!!

..and how many law abiding citizens will that put out of work?

[Rupert_Baehr]

Note my bold, none, zilch, zero (good girl me). That came straight from being told by an ex prisoner. He hated life on the outside and consistanly re-offended to get back in because he felt at home there but totally lost on the outside.

 

I met one inmate like that. I've no doubt that there are more - but not very many. If the individual is re-offending because he can't cope with life 'on the out' does that not suggest a (possibly treatable) mental illness?

 

The number of prison inmates suffering from mental illness is supposedly very high. The NHS does not have the funds o treat them and if 'Care in the Community on the Street' fails, then the only thing left is prison.

[artisan]

An earlier poster(Halibut) remarked how being a worker, saved a person from committing crime.

This is one of the basic tenets of socialism.

If we are all contributing members of society, and receive our fair share, then crime, except possibly, crimes of passion, disappear.

 

To each according to their needs

From each according to their ability

 

That should be our mantra.

Not, The Devil take the Hindmost, as it was under Thatcher.

[artisan]

Prisoners under guard should have to do it, just like the old days!!!

 

When did that happen?

You have been watching too many american films, about the chain gang.

Lee Marvin was not a real prisoner!!

[boyfriday]

Have you considered whether large numbers of the people in prison shouldn't actually be in prison? What is the benefit to society of putting a tax evader or a computer hacker or an insurance fraudster into jail?

 

That's an interesting point Tony, but it would mean that white collar criminals would be unlikely to serve prison sentences, whereas the not so bright house burglar would.

 

I believe the deterrent effect should apply equally to both, and I guess the more erudite computer hacker would probably regard prison more negatively than a cat burglar.

[Tony]

I didn't say that they should retain their liberty. That's a significant part of the deterrent to crime if we accept the point that prison is punishment, not for punishment. As you say the hacker would suffer far more in prison than a habitual offender - is that right?

 

A couple of pints would soon see a viable plan to restrict or remove that liberty (providing the deterrent) while providing a useful service. A further pint and we'd work out how to do it as a not-for-profit business at no cost to / gap funded by the taxpayer. A fourth pint and I think I might have a way of making money out of running private prisons without any taxpayer funding so long as Y'Honor keeps sending tenants.

[Rupert_Baehr]

Most of our prisons are full of illegal immigrants, or immigrants with visas just to cause trouble. We should deport them back to there own country!!! Instead of us paying our taxes just to keep them locked up!!!

 

You appear to be saying that if a Brit commits a crime, then he or she should be punished, but if an immigrant commits a crime, then he or she should escape punishment and merely be sent home.

 

Sounds like a 'Win-Win' deal to me:

 

1. Come to the UK.

2. Commit a crime.

If you get away with it, fair enough; if you're caught they will send you home.

 

GOTO1

 

I have my sources, but can remember seeing in the papers over a year ago, doing my research, this is all i've found up to now

 

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/232909.stm

 

From the link you quoted:

 

"There are currently 938 immigrants in detention - and just over half of them are kept in prison establishments rather than special centres."

 

That's hardly an indication that our prisons are full of illegal immigrants is it?

 

that was just one link, go do your own research, i'm still looking, pluss some things like that just don't get published, the government does not want you all to know that we are becoming minorities in our own country!!!!

 

First of all, look at the date of the article about immigrants: 1998 - just a bit dated!

 

Then there's the subject matter itself. "Asylum seekers and [illegal] immigrants being kept in prison instead of being held in immigration centres". This happened before most of the purpose-built immigration centres were built.

 

http://www.foreignersinuk.co.uk/news-muslim_population_in_prisons_rises_in_recent_years_1652.html

 

That's another problem. It appears that the Muslim minority is disproportionally represented amongst the prison population.

[boyfriday]

That's another problem. It appears that the Muslim minority is disproportionally represented amongst the prison population.

 

..and what postman failed to take note of is the fact that Muslim prisoners are not necessarily immigrants.

[Rupert_Baehr]

He'd probably hardly be there for burgling half a dozen houses, either. That would only merit a 'telling off' He'd need a score of at least 30 to be set down.

[boyfriday]

No you weren't, you were sticking your nose in, nuff said.

 

You must agree it was a small price to pay to aid your enlightenment?