Evidence for Man Made Climate Change

[Cavegirl]

Point taken and accepted.

 

I think some of my response to you in tone was because I mistook you for being "sexbag" from the first page, only because you replied to one of my replies to them and we were on different pages at that point. Had I spent a moment in reflection I would have realised the massive qualitative difference in your respective contributions... but I didn't.

 

Darn, I was rather enjoying this gentle sparring we were involved in haha

[donkey]

There is some truth in that. But I don't see a huge industry trying to convince us of anthropomorphic climate change. Yes there are some groups lobbying for carbon trading etc. But the bulk of the debate like with "climategate" is dominated by neo-liberal puppets of the oil lobby. A lobby that spends billions on promoting its interests. Whilst they are setting that debate to some extent it distracts people from other issues, like ocean acidification, like population etc. but the blame for that rests fairly and squarely with the oil lobby and media groups that think people like Lord Monckton, and his band of denialists deserve any positive attention.

 

Whilst papers like the Telegraph promote bad science and censor their columnists, climate change will be argued over.

 

http://liberalconspiracy.org/2010/06/16/is-the-telegraph-censoring-criticism-of-climate-change-deniers/

 

 

The bit about the ungoing mass extiction caused by chronic human overpopulation constituting a far more serious and long lasting environmental catastrophe than even the worst predictions for climate change could ever cause is true, as far as I can see.

[Wildcat]

The bit about the ungoing mass extiction caused by chronic human overpopulation constituting a far more serious and long lasting environmental catastrophe than even the worst predictions for climate change could ever cause is true, as far as I can see.

 

It is an interesting debate to be had and it links in with and compounds the negative effect of climate change.

 

I think without taking this thread off topic I would observe that to some extent population growth is self regulating and has been reducing since the 60s and is currently expected to peak in 2050.

 

There is not a lot that can directly be done to control birthrates without breaching human rights. What can be done is look to improve the economics of poor countries, because of the link with poverty and inequality and high birth rates.

 

The same people and groups promoting the idea that it is not warming or that CO2 emissions aren't the cause will be precisely the same people opposed to the solutions to population growth, because the solutions involve fairer trading practices and aid to the developing world.

[Alastair]

There is not a lot that can directly be done to control birthrates without breaching human rights. What can be done is look to improve the economics of poor countries, because of the link with poverty and inequality and high birth rates.

 

Birth rates will be naturally controlled by overpopulation demanding unreasonable resources from the finite natural world. Human rights won't even get a look in when it turns ugly.

[Wildcat]

Birth rates will be naturally controlled by overpopulation demanding unreasonable resources from the finite natural world. Human rights won't even get a look in when it turns ugly.

 

It will and is naturally reducing from a peak of 2.2% annual growth has now reduced to 1.1%.

 

People have been predicting an ugly break down of society because of overpopulation since Malthus's works in the eighteenth century. It hasn't however happened, and there is no reason why it should happen so long as the first and third world work together to reduce inequality and increase global prosperity.

[Cavegirl]

Just for the point of interest this site has some really great talks and debates that cover global warming and global warming scepticism for anyone interested:-

 

http://www.intelligencesquared.com/subjects/environment

[Grandad.Malky]

I like Richard Lindzen, he says tobacco smoking is only mildly linked with cancer..

 

if only we could chose what we believe to have the outcomes we want.

 

It is a shame the world doesn't work like that.

 

That’s the way to go just discredit those that don’t sing the tune you want to hear.

 

Lindzen is a recipient of the American Meteorological Society's Meisinger and Charney Awards, American Geophysical Union's Macelwane Medal, and the Leo Prize from the Wallin Foundation in Goteborg, Sweden. He is a member of the National Academy of Sciences (NAS), and the Norwegian Academy of Sciences and Letters, and was named Fellow of the American Academy of Arts and Sciences, the American Association for the Advancement of Sciences, the American Geophysical Union, and the American Meteorological Society. He is a corresponding member of the NAS Committee on Human Rights, and a member of the United States National Research Council Board on Atmospheric Sciences and Climate. He was a consultant to the Global Modeling and Simulation Group at NASA's Goddard Space Flight Center, and a Distinguished Visiting Scientist at California Institute of Technology's Jet Propulsion Laboratory. Lindzen is an ISI highly cited researcher, and his biography has been included in American Men and Women of Science.

[LibertyBell]

Evidence that temperatures are increasing.

[retep]

Evidence that temperatures are increasing.

 

Wonder why they never mention this,

 

 

THE HOT WEDNESDAY OF 1808

 

Farmers, and others engaged in outdoor pursuits, men of science, and others engaged in observations on meteorological phenomena, have much reason to doubt whether the reported temperatures of past years are worthy of reliance. In looking through the old journals and magazines, degrees of winter cold and summer heat are found recorded, which, to say the best of it, need to be received with much caution; seeing that the sources of fallacy were numerous. There was one particular Wednesday in 1808, for instance, which was marked by so high a temperature, as to obtain for itself the name of the 'Hot Wednesday;' there is no doubt the heat was great, even if its degree were overstated.

 

At Hayes, in Middlesex, two thermometers, the one made by Ramsden, and the other by Cary, were observed at noon, and were found to record 90° F. in the shade. Men of middle age at that time, called to mind the 'Hot Tuesday' of 1790, which, however, was several degrees below the temperature of this particular Wednesday. Remembering that the average heat, winter and summer, of the West Indies, is about 82°, it is not surprising that men fainted, and horses and other animals died under the pressure of a temperature so unusual in England as 8° above this amount. In the shade, at an open window looking into St. James's Park, a temperature of 94° was observed. In a shop-window, on the shady side of the Strand, a thermometer marked 101°; but this was under the influence of conducted and radiant warmth from surrounding objects.

 

At Gainsborough, in Lincolnshire, two thermometers, made by Nairne and Blunt respectively, hanging in the shade with a northern aspect, marked 94° at one o'clock on the day in question. In the corresponding month of 1825, observers were surprised to find a temperature of 85° marked in the quadrangle of the Royal Exchange at four o'clock in the 19th, 86½° at one o'clock on the same day, 87° at Paris, and 91° at Hull; but all these were below the indications noticed, or alleged to be noticed, in 1808.

 

It is now known, however, better than it was in those days, that numerous precautions are necessary to the obtainment of reliable observations on temperature. The height from the ground, the nature and state of the ground, the direction in reference to the points of the compass, the vicinity of other objects, the nature of those objects as heat-reflectors, the covered or uncovered state of the space overhead—all affect the degree to which the mercury in the tube of a thermometer will be expanded by heat: even if the graduation of the tube be reliable, which is seldom the case, except in high-priced instruments. On this account all the old newspaper statements on such matters must be received with caution, though there is no reason to doubt that the Hot Wednesday of 1808 was really a very formidable day.

 

source,

http://www.thebookofdays.com/months/july/13.htm

[Vague_Boy]

Growing discrepancy between HadCrut and GISTEMP.

 

Still as long as it produces the "right" figures for Al Gore and his Gorebots, it's all doubleplusgood.