Foxes- let live, or controlled killing?

[Trumpton]

Shooting would be preferable if there was a 100% kill rate, but like I have said and you have conceded, this is not the case.

 

I have spoken to marksman about this question and they say openly they cannot kill every fox. Not just because they are small, but they are also very timid, so the chances of getting a clean shot are very limited. This is then combined with the fact a marksman cannot follow a fox trail either.

 

Shooting is both unreliable, ineffective at delivering the required outcome and cannot guarantee the fox will not die a very painful and drawn-out death. This is why it is disregarded by me and those I have quoted.

I agree that no man behind a rifle can guarantee a clean kill 100% of the time, but with a good weapon system, a competent firer can do so cleanly 90% of the time.

 

I've shot on lands where the landowners have asked the rifle shooters to leave the foxes alone so there's something for the hunt to chase - we could lamp 3 or 4 foxes a night sometimes.

[dell12]

Deriving any pleasure from the killing of an animal seems slightly sadistic to me. If they are bothering farmers, let the farmer kill them, i've no problem whatsoever with that.

 

The idea that hunts kill to control fox numbers is laughable. The numbers they kill are negligible, and in fact some hunts actually breed foxes so they can go out and hunt them!

 

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/07/06/4623232-bugle-call-for-fox-hunting-debate-

[Berberis]

Deriving any pleasure from the killing of an animal seems slightly sadistic to me. If they are bothering farmers, let the farmer kill them, i've no problem whatsoever with that.

 

The idea that hunts kill to control fox numbers is laughable. The numbers they kill are negligible, and in fact some hunts actually breed foxes so they can go out and hunt them!

 

http://worldblog.msnbc.msn.com/_news/2010/07/06/4623232-bugle-call-for-fox-hunting-debate-

 

And this is why I have said over and over that I only support the hunting of foxes that cause problems i.e. pests.

 

Deriving pleasure from hunting is not the exclusive domain of those who have hunted foxes. The same can be said about those who shoot deer, or even people who kill rats for a living. Your understating of hunting is obvious very limited and your reasons for opposing fox hunting are paper thin.

[dell12]

And this is why I have said over and over that I only support the hunting of foxes that cause problems i.e. pests.

 

Deriving pleasure from hunting is not the exclusive domain of those who have hunted foxes. The same can be said about those who shoot deer, or even people who kill rats for a living. Your understating of hunting is obvious very limited and your reasons for opposing fox hunting are paper thin.

 

Well clearly if they are breeding their own foxes then i'd suggest that they (or some) are gaining some pleasure from killing them. They're totally undermining their own arguement that fox hunting is any sort of pest control.

[Berberis]

I agree that no man behind a rifle can guarantee a clean kill 100% of the time, but with a good weapon system, a competent firer can do so cleanly 90% of the time.

 

I've shot on lands where the landowners have asked the rifle shooters to leave the foxes alone so there's something for the hunt to chase - we could lamp 3 or 4 foxes a night sometimes.

 

I would dispute your 90% of the time, by what I have heard from professional marksman, but lets use that number for now.

If you presented 2 groups of 100 packs of minced lamb to shoppers in any supermarket and gave them the following information:

 

Pack 1: 1 in 10 of the lambs slaughtered for this meet lived for anything up to 48 hours in extreme pain before death, dying from either blood loss or blood poisoning.

Pack 2: The lambs that make up this meet died instantly and those who did not escaped unscathed.

 

Which pack would you buy? But more importantly, Pack 1’s method of slaughter would be banned in the UK as it caused too much suffering to the animal.

[Berberis]

Well clearly if they are breeding their own foxes then i'd suggest that they (or some) are gaining some pleasure from killing them. They're totally undermining their own arguement that fox hunting is any sort of pest control.

 

OK, you must have missed this, so I will say it again.

 

.. this is why I have said over and over that I only support the hunting of foxes that cause problems i.e. pests.

[Guest sibon]

 

Pack 1: 1 in 10 of the lambs slaughtered for this meet lived for anything up to 48 hours in extreme pain before death, dying from either blood loss or blood poisoning.

Pack 2: The lambs that make up this meet died instantly and those who did not escaped unscathed.

 

.

 

Let's throw in Pack 3. The lambs that make up this meat were chased to the point of exhaustion by a pack of vicious dogs. When they finally gave up, exhausted and terrified, they were ripped limb from limb.

 

I can't see Waitrose using that as an advert.

[Guest sibon]

OK, you must have missed this, so I will say it again.

 

.. this is why I have said over and over that I only support the hunting of foxes that cause problems i.e. pests.

 

How do you know that the fox you are chasing is a pest?

[Berberis]

How do you know that the fox you are chasing is a pest?

 

Because foxes have very ridged territories and while the food is plentyful they stick around. Once that is gone they move on.

[Berberis]

Let's throw in Pack 3. The lambs that make up this meat were chased to the point of exhaustion by a pack of vicious dogs. When they finally gave up, exhausted and terrified, they were ripped limb from limb.

 

I can't see Waitrose using that as an advert.

 

First thing first, you are exaggerating for effect.

 

The dogs are not vicious, they are doing only what a fox does to smaller animals, and what foxes had to contend with when the UK last had its wolf population.

 

The fox does not give up. Hounds are faster than foxes, so they catch them.

 

The fox is not ripped limb from limb always and in a lot of cases the hounds are trained to kill and that’s it. However the method of killing is natural and exactly the same methods utilised by foxes to hunt smaller mammals. And lastly for the majority of the hunt the fox is totally unaware of the chase and is only chased for a small period of time.