Foxes- let live, or controlled killing?

[Guest sibon]

Because foxes have very ridged territories and while the food is plentyful they stick around. Once that is gone they move on.

 

That isn't quite true though, is it? Fox territories do overlap, so you can't be sure that you are hunting the problem fox.

 

In any case, if there is a problem in an area, the answer is simple. Find the den, shoot the fox, or gas it. Problem solved.

 

Not much fun for the toffs though:mad:

[Trumpton]

I would dispute your 90% of the time, by what I have heard from professional marksman, but lets use that number for now.

If you presented 2 groups of 100 packs of minced lamb to shoppers in any supermarket and gave them the following information:

 

Pack 1: 1 in 10 of the lambs slaughtered for this meet lived for anything up to 48 hours in extreme pain before death, dying from either blood loss or blood poisoning.

Pack 2: The lambs that make up this meet died instantly and those who did not escaped unscathed.

 

Which pack would you buy? But more importantly, Pack 1’s method of slaughter would be banned in the UK as it caused too much suffering to the animal.

The cheapest of course.

[dell12]

First thing first, you are exaggerating for effect.

 

The dogs are not vicious, they are doing only what a fox does to smaller animals, and what foxes had to contend with when the UK last had its wolf population.

 

The fox does not give up. Hounds are faster than foxes, so they catch them.

 

The fox is not ripped limb from limb always and in a lot of cases the hounds are trained to kill and that’s it. However the method of killing is natural and exactly the same methods utilised by foxes to hunt smaller mammals. And lastly for the majority of the hunt the fox is totally unaware of the chase and is only chased for a small period of time.

 

I think 'hunt' is the key work here. Foxes hunt to survive. I know you make the (valid) point about foxes killing sheds of birds, however this is more down to instinct and not knowing when its next meal is coming from, rather than the fox being some sort of evil, wicked being.

 

The dogs know little better, all they are doing is what they've done for millennia and do not have the intelligence to do otherwise or make their own decisions. It is those who derive the pleasure from the killing I have the greatest problem with.

 

Dressing up in a top hat and tails seems to me that people view it more of a social occasion than the opportunity to kill pests. I'm sure this is the bit where I get accused of being 'jealous' or turning it into a issue of 'class'. However I have problem with anyone deriving pleasure from the killing of an animal be it **** fighting or bull fighting.

[Berberis]

That isn't quite true though, is it? Fox territories do overlap, so you can't be sure that you are hunting the problem fox.

 

In any case, if there is a problem in an area, the answer is simple. Find the den, shoot the fox, or gas it. Problem solved.

 

Not much fun for the toffs though:mad:

 

Well within reason territories will overlap but the amount is tiny. The only way you could possibly be hunting the wrong fox is if you where only hunting in this overlap, which would equate to less than 0.5% of the problem foxes territory and in layman’s terms about the size of an average field.

 

Gassing foxes is less humane.

 

You have shown your true colours I see. You want a less humane method of killing the fox, buy finding the den, which may well not be on your land anyway, and gassing. You only care about stopping toffs, which is completely inaccurate.

 

If you want to make idiotic remarks like “toffs” you have completely missed the point and have obviously not read this tread at all. Do yourself a favour and read this thread before making yourself look like a plonker.

[Trumpton]

Not much fun for the toffs though:mad:

It usualy comes back to good old class envy.

How come our eco-warriors, animal lovers and assorted unwashed hand-wringing interferers don'e put so much energy into disrupting hare coursing, or falconry, or fishing?

[Berberis]

I think 'hunt' is the key work here. Foxes hunt to survive. I know you make the (valid) point about foxes killing sheds of birds, however this is more down to instinct and not knowing when its next meal is coming from, rather than the fox being some sort of evil, wicked being.

 

The dogs know little better, all they are doing is what they've done for millennia and do not have the intelligence to do otherwise or make their own decisions. It is those who derive the pleasure from the killing I have the greatest problem with.

 

Dressing up in a top hat and tails seems to me that people view it more of a social occasion than the opportunity to kill pests. I'm sure this is the bit where I get accused of being 'jealous' or turning it into a issue of 'class'. However I have problem with anyone deriving pleasure from the killing of an animal be it **** fighting or bull fighting.

 

I have never said a fox is evil or wicked. I was replying to show who claimed foxes only kill to survive. That is not the case. Whether or not it’s an evolutionary trait, does not change the fact a fox will kill more than it can eat and will kill even when it does not need the food.

 

Anyway, your point about dressing up. Do you know the history of the attire worn in hunts? It’s not about getting your best coat on and having a lark on ones horse galloping around the country. The colours are there for reason, I suggest you look it up.

 

On your last point about anyone who derives pleasure from killing. I have said this before: What about those who hunt deer? They gain pleasure from hunting their prey. What about those who shoot game birds? They also gain a lot of pleasure from their chosen hobby.

[Guest sibon]

Well within reason territories will overlap but the amount is tiny. The only way you could possibly be hunting the wrong fox is if you where only hunting in this overlap, which would equate to less than 0.5% of the problem foxes territory and in layman’s terms about the size of an average field.

 

Gassing foxes is less humane.

 

You have shown your true colours I see. You want a less humane method of killing the fox, buy finding the den, which may well not be on your land anyway, and gassing. You only care about stopping toffs, which is completely inaccurate.

 

If you want to make idiotic remarks like “toffs” you have completely missed the point and have obviously not read this tread at all. Do yourself a favour and read this thread before making yourself look like a plonker.

 

I'll ignore your childish insults, although it isn't the first time you've done that in this thread.

 

Fox territories do overlap and quite significantly at times. They also compete for territory and encroach on each other. In short, you can't be sure that you are chasing the right fox.

 

Gassing is about as humane as you can get, if it is done properly. It is certainly more humane than chasing an animal using horses and dogs until they are exhausted and terrified.

 

As for the "toffs" remark. I've worked for hunts in the past. They were populated by a high proportion of upper class braying idiots. Maybe I was unlucky and most hunters are salt-of-the-earth farming types. Or maybe I saw a representative sample.

[Guest sibon]

It usualy comes back to good old class envy.

How come our eco-warriors, animal lovers and assorted unwashed hand-wringing interferers don'e put so much energy into disrupting hare coursing, or falconry, or fishing?

 

If only you knew:)

[Trumpton]

As for the "toffs" remark. I've worked for hunts in the past. They were populated by a high proportion of upper class braying idiots. Maybe I was unlucky and most hunters are salt-of-the-earth farming types. Or maybe I saw a representative sample.

If you'd worked for hunts in the past you'd know that most members are indeed normal working people.

[Guest sibon]

If you'd worked for hunts in the past you'd know that most members are indeed normal working people.

 

I did.

 

They weren't.