Britain was "junior partner" to US in fighting the Nazis

[buck]

Are you talking about the war of Northern aggression, Buck?

 

A surprisingly large number of Northern generals and Northern politicians owned plantations/had family who owned plantations which were worked by slaves in the South. (When Grant besieged and captured Vicksburg, he did so attacking over murderously rough territory to the North West of the town - It would've cost far fewer troops had he attacked from the South East ... but that would've meant damaging a relative's plantation. )

 

The South couldn't survive without slavery (or without poorly-paid agricultural workers - which was what replaced slavery) but as you said, the North couldn't have survived without the South.

 

I'm amused when people try to pretend that the war was about slavery. It might've been 'about slavery' nowadays (with the benefit of hindsight, human rights and political correctness) but at the time neither side wanted to get rid of the pool of very cheap labour and after the war, although the North had abolished slavery, they didn't suddenly start paying freed slaves proper wages and in some cases, the 'free men' were treated rather more shabbily than they had been as slaves.

 

I've no doubt that history varies with where it's taught. The Southern outlook I heard from people in MS and in LA probably varies considerably from that taught on the other side of the Mason-Dixon 'line'.

 

Most of the (real) resentment (as opposed to the 'pretend' resentment put on to amuse the tourists ) seems to relate to post-war reparations and the (no doubt not uncommon) settling of old scores.

 

When Grant captured Vicksburg, he refused to accept Pemberton's surrender until the 4th of July. He might've been a very competent General, but as a diplomat he was an abject failure! Thanks to Grant, the town of Vicksburg declined to celebrate the 4th of July until 1945. (So much for getting over the Civil War.)

 

There is a National Cemetery at Vicksburg ... but the dead Confederate soldiers are not buried there (they had attempted to secede from the US so they were not entitled to be buried in a national cemetery.) Silly, but it didn't help.

 

Nowadays, they still don't like Yankees [i'm perfectly acceptable, because I'm a foreigner - and my Wife is a DRT ] but most of that is for the benefit of the tourists.

 

When I lived in New Mexico I was amused by the fact that the people there celebrated the 4th of July. I had a friend (who I referred to as 'Dago' or {if I wanted to be formal} as 'Cow's head' - because that was his name. He called me 'Gringo'. Almost certainly politically incorrect ... but it worked.)

 

I asked him why he (and the rest of the locals) celebrated 'Cinco de Mayo' and he said: "Because that's the day that Mexico whupped the French at Puebla!"

 

"Fine" said I. "So why do you celebrate the 4th of July?"

 

"Because that's the day we gained independence from the Gringos!"

 

"But you were never occupied by the Gringos!"

 

„So? - Que paso, chollo? - Let's have a beer!"

 

„I'll sing you one, oh

 

Gringo the rushes oh"

 

Logical people, the New Mexicans.

 

Are you aware that New Mexico is the ONLY state in the US to have the letters 'USA' after the state name on the licence tag? - It doesn't say 'Philadelphia, USA' does it?

 

But it does say New Mexico USA.

 

Furthermore according to the 'Fodor's guide to America' I owned some years ago: "The banks in Albuquerque are open for currency exchange between the hours of 10 am and 3 pm"

 

That's so that you can convert your American Dollars into New Mexican Dollars.

 

And if you weren't aware that there is no difference, go into a local store and tell the person at the cash register: "I'm terribly sorry, I've only got New Mexican money."

 

(A WalMart cashier in Omaha refused to accept Hawaiian money from me when I tried that. - I threatened to call the manager:hihi:)

Weren't the first incidents at Fort Sumter then Manassas. Seems like Southern aggression to me. But it was a war over money as you suggest and the bloodbath was terrible. The Southern dead lay unburied at Gettysburg, then buried without ceremony where they fell. Some of the victims of Andersonville are buried in my local Churchyard. There was some resentment in the North too, but they got over it. They were too busy to harp on something that happened a hundred and fifty odd years ago..

[NoddyHolder]

There should have been integration of European military forces a long time ago and they would have been better equipped to deal with the occasional mini war in Kosovo and Bosnia for example instead of having to involve the US military.

 

Britain is economically part of the EU but the reluctance of its politicians to agree to any further integration is not helping matters, only causing further delays and setbacks and that leaves Germany and France calling all the shots instead of Britain also having a major say in EU affairs and policies

 

Maybe,unlike the USA we dont tend to stick our noses in other peoples business all the time...and when we do we certainly dont get our butts kicked by rice farmers

[poppins]

Maybe,unlike the USA we dont tend to stick our noses in other peoples business all the time...and when we do we certainly dont get our butts kicked by rice farmers

 

Yes, funny there noses are quite welcome when countries need them for help

[NoddyHolder]

Yes, funny there noses are quite welcome when countries need them for help

As in ? .........

[poppins]

As in ? .........

 

Ha! thats the reason for your post, you have no idea do you...poor thing

[Harleyman]

Maybe,unlike the USA we dont tend to stick our noses in other peoples business all the time...and when we do we certainly dont get our butts kicked by rice farmers

 

 

Too bad we stuck our nose in Europe's business after the end of WW2 instead of pulling out and leaving you lot to rebuild Europe and deal with Uncle Joe Stalin and his ambitions

 

Who knows, if we had done so you might slso have been working in a rice paddy somewhere in Yorkshire on a collective farm instead of blogging ignorance and supporting a third rate soccer team

[Harleyman]

Are you talking about the war of Northern aggression, Buck?

 

A surprisingly large number of Northern generals and Northern politicians owned plantations/had family who owned plantations which were worked by slaves in the South. (When Grant besieged and captured Vicksburg, he did so attacking over murderously rough territory to the North West of the town - It would've cost far fewer troops had he attacked from the South East ... but that would've meant damaging a relative's plantation. )

 

The South couldn't survive without slavery (or without poorly-paid agricultural workers - which was what replaced slavery) but as you said, the North couldn't have survived without the South.

 

I'm amused when people try to pretend that the war was about slavery. It might've been 'about slavery' nowadays (with the benefit of hindsight, human rights and political correctness) but at the time neither side wanted to get rid of the pool of very cheap labour and after the war, although the North had abolished slavery, they didn't suddenly start paying freed slaves proper wages and in some cases, the 'free men' were treated rather more shabbily than they had been as slaves.

 

I've no doubt that history varies with where it's taught. The Southern outlook I heard from people in MS and in LA probably varies considerably from that taught on the other side of the Mason-Dixon 'line'.

 

Most of the (real) resentment (as opposed to the 'pretend' resentment put on to amuse the tourists ) seems to relate to post-war reparations and the (no doubt not uncommon) settling of old scores.

 

When Grant captured Vicksburg, he refused to accept Pemberton's surrender until the 4th of July. He might've been a very competent General, but as a diplomat he was an abject failure! Thanks to Grant, the town of Vicksburg declined to celebrate the 4th of July until 1945. (So much for getting over the Civil War.)

 

There is a National Cemetery at Vicksburg ... but the dead Confederate soldiers are not buried there (they had attempted to secede from the US so they were not entitled to be buried in a national cemetery.) Silly, but it didn't help.

 

Nowadays, they still don't like Yankees [i'm perfectly acceptable, because I'm a foreigner - and my Wife is a DRT ] but most of that is for the benefit of the tourists.

 

When I lived in New Mexico I was amused by the fact that the people there celebrated the 4th of July. I had a friend (who I referred to as 'Dago' or {if I wanted to be formal} as 'Cow's head' - because that was his name. He called me 'Gringo'. Almost certainly politically incorrect ... but it worked.)

 

I asked him why he (and the rest of the locals) celebrated 'Cinco de Mayo' and he said: "Because that's the day that Mexico whupped the French at Puebla!"

 

"Fine" said I. "So why do you celebrate the 4th of July?"

 

"Because that's the day we gained independence from the Gringos!"

 

"But you were never occupied by the Gringos!"

 

„So? - Que paso, chollo? - Let's have a beer!"

 

„I'll sing you one, oh

 

Gringo the rushes oh"

 

Logical people, the New Mexicans.

 

Are you aware that New Mexico is the ONLY state in the US to have the letters 'USA' after the state name on the licence tag? - It doesn't say 'Philadelphia, USA' does it?

 

But it does say New Mexico USA.

 

Furthermore according to the 'Fodor's guide to America' I owned some years ago: "The banks in Albuquerque are open for currency exchange between the hours of 10 am and 3 pm"

 

That's so that you can convert your American Dollars into New Mexican Dollars.

 

And if you weren't aware that there is no difference, go into a local store and tell the person at the cash register: "I'm terribly sorry, I've only got New Mexican money."

 

(A WalMart cashier in Omaha refused to accept Hawaiian money from me when I tried that. - I threatened to call the manager:hihi:)

 

What on earth are you talking abour Rupert? Too much of that good Bavarian beer I see

[rubydazzler]

Too bad we stuck our nose in Europe's business after the end of WW2 instead of pulling out and leaving you lot to rebuild Europe and deal with Uncle Joe Stalin and his ambitions

 

Who knows, if we had done so you might slso have been working in a rice paddy somewhere in Yorkshire on a collective farm instead of blogging ignorance and supporting a third rate soccer team

If everything you say is true, you weren't even an American then, you were still English ... so whatever they did or did not do, it was nothing to do with you anyway. You were a mere recipient of their largesse and altruism along with the rest of us forelock tugging serfs.

[Harleyman]

If everything you say is true, you weren't even an American then, you were still English ... so whatever they did or did not do, it was nothing to do with you anyway. You were a mere recipient of their largesse and altruism along with the rest of us forelock tugging serfs.

 

Yes I was, no argument there but if the Russkies had eventually taken over western Europe I for one would have joined the KGB and prowled the streets of Sheffield in search of "dangerous reactionary counter revolutionaries"

 

Who knows I might even have staked out your house Ruby :hihi:

[NoddyHolder]

Too bad we stuck our nose in Europe's business after the end of WW2 instead of pulling out and leaving you lot to rebuild Europe and deal with Uncle Joe Stalin and his ambitions

 

Who knows, if we had done so you might slso have been working in a rice paddy somewhere in Yorkshire on a collective farm instead of blogging ignorance and supporting a third rate soccer team

I doubt it,Americas is a bit like Manchester City football club ,the materials are there but you need team work to succeed ,something the typical American is not capable of..you all talk a lot but in reality you say very little. hence small time countries dont fear going up against you