No charges in G20 death of Ian Tomlinson - Pc Harwood found not guilty.

[jongo]

The police did more than harass him, they assaulted him!

 

Yawn

He pushed him.

Night WC

[melthebell]

Yawn

He pushed him.

Night WC

which is assault

[Rupert_Baehr]

I haven't bothered to read the thread, but here goes:

 

2 types of Manslaughter:

 

1. Gross Negligence Manslaughter. R v Adamako (Doesn't apply; don't even bother to look it up.

 

2. Criminal Act Manslaughter. Where the death occurs as a result (albeit perhaps as an unintended result of a 'CRIMINAL ACT' - I've written that in capitals and printed it in red just so I don't forget!

 

Let's examine the 'criminal act'. If I threw a stone at a window (vandalism, attempted criminal damage) and the stone bounced off the window and hit you on the head and killed you, then although I had no intention of killing you (and lacked the mens rea for murder) I would have caused your death through a criminal act (throwing the stone at the window) and would be liable to be prosecuted for 'wrongful act manslaughter.'

 

It could, of course, have been a very small stone that I threw.

 

But there is legal precedent - The 'eggshell skull' case whic established the legal precedent that 'the perpetrator shall take his victim as he finds him'.

 

In English (and the 'eggshell skull' case states exactly that) if you whack somebody on the head expecting merely to incapacitate him, but your victim has an 'eggshell skull' and you kill him, then you have to accept responsibility for what you have done.

 

In the past, that has been held to be reasonable.

 

It appears that Mr Tomlinson was in fragile health. Mr Tomlinson's poor health was in no way attributable to the police, but it also appears (and appears quite clearly in the video) that they hit him.

 

What did he do to deserve that blow? (The video I saw showed him shambling across the scene.) 'Going about his lawful occasion?'

Looked like that to me.

 

A policeman hit him with a stick. I saw no behaviour by Mr Thompson which might have been construed as 'good reason' for the policeman to hit him.

 

There's no enquiry, so is this a government cover-up?

 

Mr Thompson died. How sad. He might well have died fairly soon anyway.

 

Being whacked by a policeman may not have brought his death forward by many years, but it didn't prolong his life expectancy either.

 

I don't like the charge of 'wrongful act manslaughter' - In my opinion, it is open to abuse.

 

In this case, however, it may well be wholly inappropriate.

 

If it is not deemed to be inappropriate, then what protection is available to citizens who are bludgeoned (on camera) by the police?

[Wildcat]

There's no enquiry, so is this a government cover-up?

 

I think it is a mixture of cover-up and ****-up.

 

The coroner and pathologists behaviour is more than a little suspect. The police's actions immediately afterwards can only be seen as cover up. The IPCC is perhaps more **** up than cover up, but it is hard to tell.

 

One of the most galling elements is the CPS saying there was evidence of an assault but that they were out of time.... that is an admission of **** up even if not cover up and deserving of a public apology or resignation at the least.... something not forthcoming... It is like they know there will be a media storm, but that essentially they are untouchable.

 

I doubt the Govt. themselves have intervened at all. The blame rests with the police and regulators.

[Wildcat]

Good grief, I can't believe that.

 

P.S. How is the 31 year cover up into the killing of Blair Peach going ?

 

They released the internal report a few months ago.

 

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/apr/27/blair-peach-killed-police-met-report

 

It concluded that he was almost certainly killed by the police and that 6 police officers collaborated to make it impossible to charge the one that killed him.

 

Which I would have thought was perverting the course of justice or some such offence such that they could all have been charged.

 

But it was covered up then, similar to the way this case has been covered up.

 

I don't doubt things have improved since then, but clearly not enough.

[Worjackie]

It's very sad to see so many left-wing extremists baying for the blood of a copper. They're not interested in the facts behind the story, they just want to see someone punished, and so long as they get a copper to blame, they don't care about the circumstances.

 

It seems to me like we have a new "enemy within" that we need the police to defend us ordinary decent people from.

[pcspb1]

It's very sad to see so many left-wing extremists baying for the blood of a copper. They're not interested in the facts behind the story, they just want to see someone punished, and so long as they get a copper to blame, they don't care about the circumstances.

 

It seems to me like we have a new "enemy within" that we need the police to defend us ordinary decent people from.

 

That Tomlinson was batoned and pushed to the ground, which brought about his demise is excusable in your opinion then?

 

Had the boot been shod on the other foot, you would be excusing Tomlinson for bringing about the death of a Police Officer?

 

For me, it isn't about the fact as has been presented, and i do care for the circumstances - it's about inexcusable conduct by a Police Officer, conduct bringing the force in to disrepute, conduct for which he has been mitigated - maybe they themselves are the enemy within to which you refer.

 

He used un-necessary force, for that, he should be reprimanded - brought to book.

[Kthebean]

It's very sad to see so many left-wing extremists baying for the blood of a copper. They're not interested in the facts behind the story, they just want to see someone punished, and so long as they get a copper to blame, they don't care about the circumstances.

 

It seems to me like we have a new "enemy within" that we need the police to defend us ordinary decent people from.

 

I dont think anyones 'baying for blood', just asking for a fair trial to assess the circumstances in court. Might I suggest a cold shower and a lie down.

[melthebell]

It's very sad to see so many left-wing extremists baying for the blood of a copper. They're not interested in the facts behind the story, they just want to see someone punished, and so long as they get a copper to blame, they don't care about the circumstances.

 

It seems to me like we have a new "enemy within" that we need the police to defend us ordinary decent people from.

 

nobodys baying for blood and if anybodys ignoring facts its the right wingers who are swearing black is white in defence of the officer despite damning evidence...........its on film and STILL they deny he was pushed, they STILL deny the officer had a baton

 

its really strange how two sets of people on opposite sides of the political spectrum can see different views of the same act captured on film and pictures

 

put it this way, would YOU like it if your mum or dad say died after being pushed and hit by a police officer? then they "get off" when all the evidence points to it being because of their actions?

[Darth Vader]

It seems to me like we have a new "enemy within" that we need the police to defend us ordinary decent people from.

 

You're right the police DO have an enemy from within. And that is some within their own ranks who do the entire force a shocking discredit. And yes, decent people DO need defending from them. But it would seem the police are are not up to this job, as they have not come forward.