Bassman62 Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 im not saying its you........but generally, its laughable the amount of "excuses" that have been thrown, and most are repeated in your "clearing up the issue" post whether its ian tomlinson deserved it, the officer didnt swing, didnt push, didnt have a baton , believing one pathology report and not another it seems to me, both sides pick and choose which pieces of "evidence" to support their view its a very messy case what with the cps not wanting to prosecute, 3 or so autopsies (including one by a dr about to be disciplined), alledgedly the officer involved has been investigated before personally im not here to police bash, im here for the truth, police brutality SHOULDNT happen in the civilised world (especially), personally im choosing to agree with the official channels that something untoward did happen The biggest lame excuse is where we don't see the videos showing the way he was behaving towards the police before the final incident. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritPat Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Lets just clear up a few things on this thread as it seems to be descending rapidly into closure... Question Was Mr.Tomlinson an innocent man on his way home who just happen to get caught up in the protest? Answer Mr Tomlinson was firstly trying to stop a police van from advancing along a street by standing in front of it, he was asked/told by the police to move numerous times without moving, he was then man handled out of the way by the police to enable the van to proceed, later that day came the incident on the video where he was seen stood still by the bicycles when the police started moving towards him, he then proceeded to move slowly along the front of the oncoming police line, this is when the incident happened. Question Was Mr.Tomlinson an innocent man on his way home who just happen to get caught up in the protest? Answer Highly unlikely judging by the evidence... CPS Decision re possible prosecution. ...Possible charges The first issue that the CPS considered was whether the actions of PC 'A' were lawful. Having analysed the available evidence very carefully, the CPS concluded that there is sufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of proving that the actions of PC 'A' in striking Mr Tomlinson with his baton and then pushing him over constituted an assault. At the time of those acts, Mr Tomlinson did not pose a threat to PC 'A' or any other police officer. Whilst the officer was entitled to require Mr Tomlinson to move out of Royal Exchange, there is sufficient evidence to provide a realistic prospect of proving that his actions were disproportionate and unjustified. Having concluded that the officer's actions could constitute an assault, the CPS then considered the possible criminal charges.... You are of course entitled to your opinion regardless of whether or not you are a clown. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 The biggest lame excuse is where we don't see the videos showing the way he was behaving towards the police before the final incident. we (the public) NEVER see the full facts, thats why all this bickering and postering is completely pointless. the thing about things like riots or incidents inside protests.......the trigger points arent normally filmed as people only start filming AFTER somethings happened and we cant time travel back to before it happened...sadly Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongo Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 im not saying its you........but generally, its laughable the amount of "excuses" that have been thrown, and most are repeated in your "clearing up the issue" post whether its ian tomlinson deserved it, the officer didnt swing, didnt push, didnt have a baton , believing one pathology report and not another it seems to me, both sides pick and choose which pieces of "evidence" to support their view its a very messy case what with the cps not wanting to prosecute, 3 or so autopsies (including one by a dr about to be disciplined), alledgedly the officer involved has been investigated before personally im not here to police bash, im here for the truth, police brutality SHOULDNT happen in the civilised world (especially), personally im choosing to agree with the official channels that something untoward did happen and then youve got the likes of bassman with no actual solid arguement, just the usual ranting of liberal leftie gardian reading anti west terrorist lovers Seen plenty of stuff on the other side of the spectrum Mel anyway I am off from this thread now as it has and is just going round in circles Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jongo Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 CPS Decision re possible prosecution. You are of course entitled to your opinion regardless of whether or not you are a clown. My, how clever you are, I am in awe of you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BritPat Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 I assumed that you were clowning given the availability of the cps decision ! The biggest hurdle to prosecution was the link between cause of death and probable unlawful action of Officer A. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wildcat Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Lets just clear up a few things on this thread as it seems to be descending rapidly into closure. Question Was Mr.Tomlinson an innocent man on his way home who just happen to get caught up in the protest? Answer Mr Tomlinson was firstly trying to stop a police van from advancing along a street by standing in front of it, he was asked/told by the police to move numerous times without moving, he was then man handled out of the way by the police to enable the van to proceed, later that day came the incident on the video where he was seen stood still by the bicycles when the police started moving towards him, he then proceeded to move slowly along the front of the oncoming police line, this is when the incident happened. Where do you get your information from? You are posting like you know what you are talking about. I assume you are using this source.... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2368505.ece In which case your account is misleading to the point of fabrication. Question Was Mr.Tomlinson an innocent man on his way home who just happen to get caught up in the protest? Answer Highly unlikely judging by the evidence. Question Why didnt the police arrest him if he was being such a nuisance? Answer Lets just imagine for one minute that Mr.Tomlinson didnt fall over that day, he would still be alive and carrying on with his usual daily routine, now, imagine the police arresting him that day and the outcry that would have for "arresting an innocent man" see above, the police that day showed restraint by not arresting him that day, in hindsight I bet every single police man there wished they had arrested him, but hindsight is a wonderful thing. Question Why didnt the police arrest him if he was being such a nuisance? Answer They were trying to give the bloke a chance to go home if that was what he was supposed to have been doing, they just wanted him out of the way, when he finally stumbled and fell the police didnt bother trying to arrest him or do anything else with him, they just wanted a clear route between themselves and the protesters. I don't think anyone apart from you has suggested he was in anyway involved. Question Did the police officer hit Mr.Tomlinson with his baton? Answer From the video evidence (and I include other footage that can be seen clearer from different angles) it does appear as if the police officer hits him with his baton, now the word appear is the critical word here. Looking at the video on here is not so clear, but looking at a different angle, it shows it more clearly and it shows what I would say as a deffinate swing by the officer, but, thats why the word appear is so crucial, the baton also appears not to actually hit him, none of the footage I have seen is good enough to determine actual contact, what can be seen after the strike is that Mr.Tomlinson does not flinch from the baton, no movement from his legs that you would expect from anyone in this position and he just carries on walking. Thats why the word appear is so crucial here. From the eye witness accounts we know he was hit on more than one occasion, including whilst he was on the ground. Not that that makes much difference, it was the shove that is clearly visible in the video that sends him to the ground and ultimately resulted in his death. Question Did the police officer hit Mr.Tomlinson with his baton? Answer Highly unlikely judging by the evidence. Numerous eye witness testimonies, the admission of the Police themselves and the forensic reports are not good evidence to you? Question Did the police officer push Mr.Tomlinson to the floor? Answer This is the easiest question to answer. No he didnt, he pushed him to move him out of the way, if he had pushed him to the floor then the officer would have had no problem in doing this to someone apparently unstable on his feet. As it was the officer pushed him to move him out of the way, Mr.Tomlinson fell to the floor after losing his balance from the push after a step or two, it also didnt help, the fact that he had his hands in his pockets. Lets look at that video again: He takes a run up to make the push... that is not a push out of the way, that is a deliberate attempt to push him over. Question Did Mr.Tomlinson die from the result of this fall? Answer This is an unanswerable question, it could be that he had fallen earlier and incured his injuries then, that could have been the reason for him being so slow on his feet at the time of the incident on the video, he could actually have been dying at the time. When he was previously attacked and pushed over by the same group of police officers? Speculation. We know he was pushed over and fell hard in the video we have and that he died soon after. If you look closely his right arm is twisted close to his body as he gets up... It looks like he probably fell on it. It does not take a genius to link the two events. Question Did Mr.Tomlinson die from being struck by a blunt instrument? Answer The first report that has largely been discredited said he died from a heart attack, the subsequent reports say he died from cirrhosis of the liver and also internal bleeding from a blunt force trauma which was the result of him falling over on his elbow Question Did Mr.Tomlinson die from being struck by a blunt instrument? Answer No. He died from the blunt force trauma of being pushed over and landing on his elbow. Question Did the CPS do the right thing by not taking this case to court? Answer Yes they did do the right thing, this would have taken years to finally get to court at a cost of millions of pounds to the tax payer just for the Police officers defense to tear the so called evidence to shreds, the only hard and fast evidence against the police officer that can't be dispelled is the fact that he pushed Mr.Tomlinson, so on this evidence would a police officer or anyone else for that point be found guilty of manslaughter, of course not. Question Did the CPS do the right thing by not taking this case to court? Answer Yes. On that note I will now leave Citizen Smith and his tin pot revolutionaries to carry on organizing the downfall of law and order. Power to the people!! Right on comrade!! You have asked the same question twice. The CPS themselves say there was enough evidence to take the case to court for assault, they just did not do so within the 6 months limit because they were looking at manslaughter. The bizarre argument they used to justify not taking the manslaughter charge to court was that the discredited first pathology report would have prevented the case being won, exactly the opposite decision made when they decided not to bring a charge of assault. The CPS far from making the right decision have used contradictory reasons for their actions and shown themselves to be incompetent. Jongo, your account is based on your own fantasies not the evidence. Why have you gone to such lengths with fabrications and misrepresentations to make your case? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman62 Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 we (the public) NEVER see the full facts, thats why all this bickering and postering is completely pointless. the thing about things like riots or incidents inside protests.......the trigger points arent normally filmed as people only start filming AFTER somethings happened and we cant time travel back to before it happened...sadly And that is where you're wrong! We were shown the whole video soon after the event but it now seems to have gone walkabout. The original footage showed this man or his double mouthing off at police and being confrontational. Where is it now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bassman62 Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 Where do you get your information from? You are posting like you know what you are talking about. I assume you are using this source.... http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2368505.ece Well that sure doesn't fit the description of a man going about his business more like a drunken plonker. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
melthebell Posted July 27, 2010 Share Posted July 27, 2010 And that is where you're wrong! We were shown the whole video soon after the event but it now seems to have gone walkabout. The original footage showed this man or his double mouthing off at police and being confrontational. Where is it now? ooh so now YOU and only YOU seem to have seen some special full video that nobody else has seen nor knows where it is cos its magically vanished? as for my post i wasnt refering to this case singularly but in general Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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