Does this happen to girls in england?

[Harleyman]

British girls undergo horror of genital mutilation despite tough laws

Female circumcision will be inflicted on up to 2,000 British schoolgirls during the summer holidays – leaving brutal physical and emotional scars. Yet there have been no prosecutions against the practice

 

 

The Observer 25/7/10

http://www.guardian.co.uk/society/2010/jul/25/female-circumcision-children-british-law

 

 

 

No doubt due to the wimp like creatures who would say that prosecuting the parents is violating their "cultural practices"

[boyfriday]

No doubt due to the wimp like creatures who would say that prosecuting the parents is violating their "cultural practices"

 

The major problem is discovering who the parents are in the first place.

[quisquose]

The major problem is discovering who the parents are in the first place.

Or/and that nobody is looking.

[Suffragette1]

The major problem is discovering who the parents are in the first place.

 

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the former Dutch parliamentarian, advocated compulsory annual examinations of girls from high-risk cultures when she lived in the Netherlands and I believe that this is what happens (albeit not routinely) in Sweden. Obviously, this presents us with a whole set of ethical issues.

 

There is no easy solution but I do believe that we need to be more proactive. Schools, health professionals and social services should be more assertive.

[boyfriday]

As the law is on their side (however, I stress that it also needs to be implemented rather than languish on some statute book), it may precipitate change in the same way that domestic violence is no longer acceptable nor considered a private matter.

 

I believe the positive changes in domestic abuse have come about through women being confident enough to make complaints, rather than assuming all men are wife beaters and then looking for evidence to substantiate those claims.

 

I don't really believe there's any reluctance on the part of the justice system to prosecute parents who have their daughters circumcised, to know that we'd have to know how many documented cases had been presented and rejected for spurious reasons.

 

What undoubtedly exists is secrecy within these communities about this issue and that has to be challenged in such a way that it will reap positive benefits for the girls involved rather than alienate them further.

[Suffragette1]

I believe the positive changes in domestic abuse have come about through women being confident enough to make complaints, rather than assuming all men are wife beaters and then looking for evidence to substantiate those claims.

 

I don't really believe there's any reluctance on the part of the justice system to prosecute parents who have their daughters circumcised, to know that we'd have to know how many documented cases had been presented and rejected for spurious reasons.

 

What undoubtedly exists is secrecy within these communities about this issue and that has to be challenged in such a way that it will reap positive benefits for the girls involved rather than alienate them further.

And that was largely due in part to the shift in attitude that it was acceptable for a man to beat a woman. It is well known that the police used to be reluctant to get involved in what they would trivialise as 'a domestic'. Women only became confident enough to lodge complaints when they knew that they would be dealt with seriously.

[boyfriday]

Ayaan Hirsi Ali, the former Dutch parliamentarian, advocated compulsory annual examinations of girls from high-risk cultures when she lived in the Netherlands and I believe that this is what happens (albeit not routinely) in Sweden. Obviously, this presents us with a whole set of ethical issues.

 

Bloody right it does! Imagine if the state insisted that our daughters had to undergo a compulsory intimate examination, the poo really would hit the fan and rightly so!

There is no easy solution but I do believe that we need to be more proactive. Schools, health professionals and social services should be more assertive.

Hmm, assertive in what way though?

 

If they adopt the jackboot approach by assuming guilt, they'll alienate a lot of perfectly law abiding people who had no intention of having their daughters circumcised in the first place (I believe these represent the vast majority).

 

What they can achieve is through consensus, and education, these people need to be shown that their daughters do not need to be circumcised to protect their chastity or whatever **** & bull reasons they might use to justify it.

[Suffragette1]

Bloody right it does! Imagine if the state insisted that our daughters had to undergo a compulsory intimate examination, the poo really would hit the fan and rightly so!

Hmm, assertive in what way though?

 

If they adopt the jackboot approach by assuming guilt, they'll alienate a lot of perfectly law abiding people who had no intention of having their daughters circumcised in the first place (I believe these represent the vast majority).

 

What they can achieve is through consensus, and education, these people need to be shown that their daughters do not need to be circumcised to protect their chastity or whatever **** & bull reasons they might use to justify it.

 

By assertive, I mean that when there is a suspicion that a girl has returned to school, withdrawn, suddenly changed, unable to partake in some PE activities for example, a difference in gait, mentions that she has been to abroad etc, that it is reported. Or, if a health professional has any reason to suspect that a girl has undergone FGM, they act on it.

[boyfriday]

And that was largely due in part to the shift in attitude that it was acceptable for a man to beat a woman. It is well known that the police used to be reluctant to get involved in what they would trivialise as 'a domestic'. Women only became confident enough to lodge complaints when they knew that they would be dealt with seriously.

The reluctance was also due to complaints not proceeding because a submissive wife would withdraw a previously genuine complaint. Twenty, thirty years ago the police service was run by unreconstructed men, they did the best they could but they probably had very traditional views about women and lacked the necessary empathy and understanding.

 

The police service is different now, I believe there are well motivated and dedicated officers who can deal sensitively with issues like this, it's a bit discourteous to them to suggest they might lack the wit and balls to address illegal female circumcisions seriously, I damn well would if I were in their position to do something about and it.

[nerd]

I seem to recall reading somewhere that in some of the cultures that practice FGM there is a belief (among the women) that if a baby being born touches the clitoris of an unmutilated woman the baby will die or be seriously disabled. If myths like that are being peddled it makes it very hard as you are arguing from so many angles.

I think that there needs to be an education programme in schools, that tells young girls (and boys) about this practice and how to get help if they fear they are at risk. All the kids should get this, not just those from "at risk" backgrounds, as one child may confide in a friend but not a teacher/police etc. Then the education should also be carried out at places of worship - mosques/churches/temples etc. People who know more about their respective religions are keen to point out that this is NOT a requiremtn of islam, christinaity etc, so lets get that message across in the places of worship so that kids and adults alike are being informed - some clearly DO believe it is part of their religion, but if all are told that it isn't then everyone is geting the same message.

Different hospital depts could also have poster up about this, like they do about domestic abuse etc - a few poster in waiting rooms and toilet cubicles, with info on how to get help so that people can turn to someone if they are at risk or have had this done to them.

I do wonder what happens to the women who have been fully infibulated when they arrive at the labour suite in the hospital to give birth. Do they have to be cut open to get the baby out? And more to the point, do our NHS docs re-infibulate afterwards?

Also, if the women arriving are UK born and bred, whatever their ethnic background could they not be interviewed about when it was carried out on them? They may have younger sibling at risk, or be at higher risk of doing this to their child?