A better deal for people who contribute to society

[happyhippy]

But that's just it, I haven't done them, I'm off work due to being ill.

 

And you can help as and when you can then. Eejit.

[danot]

And you can help as and when you can then. Eejit.

But that wouldn't be fair on my boss would it?, who still believes I'm too ill to work.

[espadrille]

But sometimes it can be a step on the ladder back in to work. It depends on what the illness is really doesn't it.

[espadrille]

You won't change the attitude of someone who manipulates the benefit system because they don't want to work, anymore than a parent or teacher could change the attitude of a child who either skips school or doesn't pay attention when in school because they don't want to learn.

 

You wont change an attitude, but you can take away the benefits and this is undoubtedly the only way that some will get a job, because if you make it easy for them not to have one then they will choose the easy option.

 

I am all for the state helping out those who genuinely need the help.The ones who need to have support to find work due to disability or long term health issues should of course have this. It wouldn't work without it. In fact I do believe that the current support is not effective as it concentrates on getting numbers of people in to work rather than keeping those in long term work , those who need a lot of support often dont get that for long enough.

Much of this is to do with employers who see people with disabilities as just too much hard work and dont want to put the effort in to supporting people with difficulties to keep jobs.

The DDA needs to be used much more effectively by supported employment agencies and individuals, and although there are some supportive employers we need to work on changing the way we think about people with disabilities as they have a lot to contribute to the workforce.

 

This leaves those who feel they have a right to get something for nothing.This category of people who are set in their ways, from 3rd generation of families on benefits it is a way of life and changing that pattern of behaviour is extremely difficult. Human beings are creatures of habit so what would happen if the benefits were taken away?

 

Well I believe this would have to be staggered as they would have to get used to the idea that they had to get a job and live possibly on the minimum wage until they got used to work and the routine that you need to develop. Many may have to do voluntary jobs first to get used to this routine.

It takes a strong person to bring in these kind of controversial reforms, but with the state of the country s finances and the decline in moral attitudes, it will have to be sooner than later.

 

Working develops self esteem so not only would it benefit the taxman and the country but it will also bring health benefits to the individual as working in the right job can be a therapy. Ask any OT. I know they will agree.

[Kthebean]

Why can she not work then?

 

She has had very invasive treatment so is in and out of hospital a lot. She can't really commit to anything as she doesn't know whether she'll be alive to do it, or capable of getting out of bed on that particular day.

 

She volunteers because she wants to pay something back to society and feel like a useful member of society, it gets her out of the house and keeps her skills active for when she (hopefully) gets better and can go back into her successful career.

 

If she is not able to volunteer on a certain day due to illness she can ring up and say so. She personally doesn't feel it would be fair to an employer to apply for a job and then take 6 months off sick in her first year, just turning up for the odd day when she feels able to.

 

 

But of course, because on some days shes well enough to work and looks 'normal' shes just a workshy scrounger to most people, which is another burden she has to live with.

[truman]

What's a contract have to do with it?. No one can be forced to work when they're ill.

 

So what's the difference between a paid days work and a voluntary days work?

 

Let's get this right..you be prepared to employ someone who doesn't know whether they'll be able to work from one day to the next?

[danot]

You wont change an attitude, but you can take away the benefits and this is undoubtedly the only way that some will get a job, because if you make it easy for them not to have one then they will choose the easy option.

 

I am all for the state helping out those who genuinely need the help.The ones who need to have support to find work due to disability or long term health issues should of course have this. It wouldn't work without it. In fact I do believe that the current support is not effective as it concentrates on getting numbers of people in to work rather than keeping those in long term work , those who need a lot of support often dont get that for long enough.

Much of this is to do with employers who see people with disabilities as just too much hard work and dont want to put the effort in to supporting people with difficulties to keep jobs.

The DDA needs to be used much more effectively by supported employment agencies and individuals, and although there are some supportive employers we need to work on changing the way we think about people with disabilities as they have a lot to contribute to the workforce.

 

This leaves those who feel they have a right to get something for nothing.This category of people who are set in their ways, from 3rd generation of families on benefits it is a way of life and changing that pattern of behaviour is extremely difficult. Human beings are creatures of habit so what would happen if the benefits were taken away?

 

Well I believe this would have to be staggered as they would have to get used to the idea that they had to get a job and live possibly on the minimum wage until they got used to work and the routine that you need to develop. Many may have to do voluntary jobs first to get used to this routine.

It takes a strong person to bring in these kind of controversial reforms, but with the state of the country s finances and the decline in moral attitudes, it will have to be sooner than later.

 

Working develops self esteem so not only would it benefit the taxman and the country but it will also bring health benefits to the individual as working in the right job can be a therapy. Ask any OT. I know they will agree.

I hear what you're saying, but some people are beyond reform, that's all I'm saying. The system doesn't seem to pursue these people because in a way, they sort of hold the system to ransom because they'll resort to crime if any new system was introduced that effectively removed or reduced their level of benefit.

[danot]

But sometimes it can be a step on the ladder back in to work. It depends on what the illness is really doesn't it.

Yes, the severity of their illness is without doubt the key factor in all of this.

[espadrille]

I hear what you're saying, but some people are beyond reform, that's all I'm saying. The system doesn't seem to pursue these people because in a way, they sort of hold the system to ransom because they'll resort to crime if any new system was introduced that effectively removed or reduced their level of benefit.

 

Of course there is a chance that can happen but unlikely if you are doing a job that is tiring for 40 hours a week. I am sure there are some statistics that show in places where there is less worklessness then crime figures improve.

Most would not have the energy nor the motivation to be thinking of crime if they were worn out!

[danot]

Let's get this right..you be prepared to employ someone who doesn't know whether they'll be able to work from one day to the next?

No I wouldn't, likewise, I wouldn't pay incapacity benefit to someone who doesn't know whether they'll be ill from one day to the next. It's the only way to stop the cheats abusing it.