Toby Foster and Harrow Halal meat

[quisquose]

I'm not saying people aren't entitled to their opinion, but what legitimate objection could there be to pre stunned halal meat? That's my only point.

 

Even if pre-stunned halal was shown to result in no more suffering than regular meat, you are still defending the uttering of a religious blessing over the meat. Now that might seem inconsequential to a non-religious person like yourself, but can you not imagine that the concerns of a religious person of a different faith might be legit?

[boyfriday]

Even if pre-stunned halal was shown to result in no more suffering than regular meat, you are still defending the uttering of a religious blessing over the meat. Now that might seem inconsequential to a non-religious person like yourself, but can you not imagine that the concerns of a religious person of a different faith might be legit?

 

No, I'm not defending the religious bits, and as you say it makes not a jot of difference to me-provided the slaughter is in accordance with law and livestock is pre-stunnned.

 

The point about other religions being offended is appropriate, but Grahame, who most of us regard as a dedicated and orthodox Christian, has said he's 'happy to eat' halal meat, which suggests there aren't any religious reasons for not eating it from a Christian perspective.

 

Of course the views of those who do object on religious grounds should be heard and taken account of, however my own feelings are that they are a small minority and we should not be cow-towing to the prejudices of people whose only interest is an opportunity to bash Muslims, whilst mired in the ghee from last night's takeaway.

[quisquose]

I'm not saying that at all hard2miss, but it hasn't been established that the halal meat that's being supplied to Harlow schools isn't pre-stunned, unless you believe other aspects regarding the slaughter of halal meat are inhumane?

I think we can be pretty certain that some religiously slaughtered meat that has not been pre-stunned will end up on the menus of the school, and all schools. This is because of the estimates that less than half of this meat ends up being sold as kosher or halal, with most going into processed meat products without the consumer's knowledge. For this reason I support the MEPs proposals to label all such meat accordingly.

[alchresearch]

Ignoring the halal / non-halal question for the moment, I'd be more concerned whether this means pork will be taken off the menu completely.

[boyfriday]

I think we can be pretty certain that some religiously slaughtered meat that has not been pre-stunned will end up on the menus of the school, and all schools.

 

This is because of the estimates that less than half of this meat ends up being sold as kosher or halal, with most going into processed meat products without the consumer's knowledge. For this reason I support the MEPs proposals to label all such meat accordingly.

 

Meat supplied to schools tends to come from commercial slaughterhouses and wholesale butchers, not the backstreet abatoir, halal meat supplied to schools and most supermarkets is certified as such, and as being pre-stunned if that's a requirement. I'm not saying that eliminates the risk of non pre-stunned meat ending up in processed meat products, but I do know that the large halal slaughter houses have responded to commercial pressures and pre-stun the meat they supply to most of the organisations that buy it.

[Grahame]

Meat supplied to schools tends to come from commercial slaughterhouses and wholesale butchers, not the backstreet abatoir, halal meat supplied to schools and most supermarkets is certified as such, and as being pre-stunned if that's a requirement. I'm not saying that eliminates the risk of non pre-stunned meat being ending up in processed meat products, but I do know that the large halal slaughter houses have responded to commercial pressures and pre-stun the meat they supply to most of the organisations that buy it.

 

Please provide evidence for that bf. Thanks.

[boyfriday]

Please provide evidence for that bf. Thanks.

 

I'm afraid my evidence is mainly anecdotal Grahame.

 

I mentioned earlier that I had some dialogue with a halal meat wholesaler last year. He was quite amused when I questioned the slaughter methods of halal carcasses. To put it simply he was a businessman and quickly realised that the meat he wanted to sell had to be acceptable to the buyers in supermarkets, who whilst wishing to cater for their Muslim customers, were appreciative of the fact that non stunned meat would cause consternation amongst the non Muslims-it would be commercial suicide for him to rail against that view, especially as pre-stunning adds little cost to the mass production of halal meat.

 

I know that halal meat supplied to Sheffield schools has to be pre-stunned, they confirm so on their website.

 

We will work with members of the Muslim community and governing bodies to provide Halal meat as required.

 

All meat must be pre-stunned before slaughter in the Islamic way.

 

All details of the slaughterer, including the license and stamp of authorisation, must be known by us.

 

http://www.sheffield.gov.uk/education/services-to-schools/schoolcateringcontract/halalmeatandpoultryspecifications

 

As does the meat supplied to KFC during their halal meat trial.

 

 

9. Is KFC's Halal chicken stunned before slaughter?

 

Yes, due to our strict animal welfare standards, we insist that all our poultry is stunned before slaughter.

 

Our Halal chicken has been accredited by the Halal Food Authority, one of the most widely recognised bodies in the UK and overseas. It allows the use of a technique called 'stun-to-stun' - a pain free process that makes the animal insensible to pain and suffering. A verse is also recited from the Koran at the point of slaughter by an appropriate person and the poultry will not come into contact with non-Halal meat at any point in the supply chain.

 

http://www.kfc.co.uk/about-kfc/halal/

 

I guess these organisations are fairly typical of large halal meat purchasers.

[Cozmo]

See, thats just an insane thing to say:loopy:

 

Why is that insane when your stated opinion is this : -

 

 

 

You don't like other people inflicting their opinion on you do you, and you complain about it, but you call someone insane when they do the same as you!

 

I think your totally missing the point Grahame, I referred to the opinion that "No English Child should be forced to eat Halal meat" as insane, and I stand by that. If you pick apart a statement like that it is suggesting that children/people who DO eat Halal meat are not English. Thats a crazy point of view to have because many. many 2nd/3rd generation Asians identify themselves as English/British Asians. My point about religion impeeding on my life or those of us who are not religious makes no reference to a persons nationality or 'Englishness' as you coined the phrase, it refers to political or social trends/laws or legislation.

My main point in all of this thread is that political correctness should not stop debate or discourse.

[wednesday1]

I once met a wholesale halal butcher who supplies meat to restaurants and supermarkets, he said they pre-stunned all their meat, it just reduced the potential obstacles to getting it into the establishments that they relied on for business.

 

He'd never encountered a customer who complained about meat that had been pre-stunned.

 

 

Glad to hear it!

[milquetoast1]

I am happy to eat halal meat,

Perhaps you should read Acts 15:29 before happily tucking into meat that has been sacrificed to the moon god.