Toby Foster and Harrow Halal meat

[Grahame]

No, someone's just extremely dense and needs everything spelling out for him.

 

Then spell it out oh wise one.

[Grahame]

I am waiting.

[boyfriday]

Thanks for the link. Pre-stunning is not part of the procedure. Someone is telling lies.

 

Dhabiha: Method of slaughter

Main article: Dhabiha

 

Thabiha or Dhabiha (Arabic: ذبيحة‎), is the prescribed method of ritual slaughter of all animals excluding fish and most sea-life per Islamic law. This method of slaughtering animals consists of a swift, deep incision with a sharp knife on the neck, cutting the jugular veins and carotid arteries of both sides but leaving the spinal cord intact. The method is believed to cause minimal suffering to the animal as it cuts off the blood supply to the brain hence the pain center [citation needed]. Furthermore it causes all the blood from the animal to gush out leaving negligible amounts of blood remaining in the body, the principle being that blood is a good medium for germs[citation needed].

 

 

I think you should have a look at the website of the Halal Food Authority, rather than an obscure foreign source, pre-stunning of livestock is allowed, provided it doesn't bring about the death of the animal.

 

http://www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk/aboutus.html

[Grahame]

I think you should have a look at the website of the Halal Food Authority, rather than an obscure foreign source, pre-stunning of livestock is allowed, provided it doesn't bring about the death of the animal.

 

http://www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk/aboutus.html

 

 

If their method included pre-stunning Muslims would eat our meat.

 

They don't eat English meat because it is not halal meat (bled to death).

 

[Halibut]

Halal meat does NOT include pre-stunning. If it did they would eat our pre-stunned meat.

 

Grahame - like banging your head repeatedly into a brick wall.

 

 

 

 

Just because you say so. Yeah.

[boyfriday]

And their religion dictates how animals are slaughtered and it does NOT include pre-stunning.

 

They cut the animals throat, hang it upside down and leave it to bleed to death.

 

And Boyfriday, I have said this to you before and I will say it again, your concern and my concern should be to cause as little suffering to the animal as possible. You continually and blatantly ignore that major issue. You attitude seems to be that if the Muslim people are happy then it does not matter if the animal suffers and I think that attitude is disgusting.

 

You've previously accused me of posting 'twaddle', so I'm not surprised you've missed the links and argument I've made regarding pre-stunning for halal meat, here's an excerpt from the HFA website, regarding the issue. Incidentally, I've never said all halal meat is pre-stunned, however commercial slaughter houses supplying to schools, supermarkets and public bodies will probably be required to supply meat from pre-stunned carcasses.

 

However, at the initiative of the Meat and Livestock Commission, Mr. Steve Wotton of Division of Food Animal Science of Department of Clinical Veterinary Science of the University of Bristol, has developed a prototype method of stunning and have produced a stunner together with Hellenic Co., by which the animal will not succumb to the shock and can also be sent back to grazing pasture duly revived. How does it work?

 

Unlike ordinary stunning method where animal loses only 50-60% of the blood volume at exsanguinations - that is bleeding in simple terms- because cardiac arrest takes place and animal never recovers consciousness and, there is a reduced convulsion. This somewhat fail safe new system of head-only stunning, is reversible. Electric dosage though is of high frequency and electrode are sharp, this pre slaughter stunning in not painful. It is defined as being at humane level and within the remit of the relevant EU law and with an auto-calibration system for current monitoring and there is a very accurate record of stunner's performance.

 

Logging systems enable a progress check separately on every animal individually. In test conditions it was found that animal whence slaughtered bled profusely with convulsions. Animals do revive naturally, within a safe period if spared from slaughter for whatever reason.

 

There could still be a prevailing opinion of a section that even this fail-safe method does not mirror to the Islamic requirement. For reasons that electric shock is unethical and, in the knowledge and opinion of the critics there is no guarantee of feasibility of revival. It has, time and again to the contrary to this belief, been proven that animals do regain consciousness within a desired period.

 

http://www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk/definitionhalal.html

[Cozmo]

As far as I am concerned it is about the 'rights' of living creatures. Religion does not play a part in my argument and a humanist and an atheist could identify with my view.

 

The religious card is being played by the Muslims.

 

Of course you are right when you say that as far as your concerned its about the rights of living creatures. But clearly the rights of living creatures your concerned with are as a result of how they are slaughtered, and in this case the thread cleraly states its about Halal meat and the slaughtering proccess associated with it, Halal being a religious practice. Therefore, my original post that this whole discussion is underpinned by religious practices still stands.

 

I really do struggle to understand where your coming from sometimes Grahame

[boyfriday]

If their method included pre-stunning Muslims would eat our meat.

 

They don't eat English meat because it is not halal meat (bled to death).

 

 

What makes normal tap water, holy water?

[Grahame]

You've previously accused me of posting 'twaddle', so I'm not surprised you've missed the links and argument I've made regarding pre-stunning for halal meat, here's an excerpt from the HFA website, regarding the issue. Incidentally, I've never said all halal meat is pre-stunned, however commercial slaughter houses supplying to schools, supermarkets and public bodies will probably be required to supply meat from pre-stunned carcasses.

 

http://www.halalfoodauthority.co.uk/definitionhalal.html

 

What are you talking about! The part you posted the animal goes back into the field! Strange sort of slaughter.

 

This is what your article says.

 

"There are four known methods of rendering partially or completely immobilising the animals:

 

1. Captive bolt system used mainly on cattle

2. Gas system for asphyxiation

3. Electrical stunning for ovine animals and / or

4. Electric-water bath stunning, the type used for poultry

 

Captive bolt used on cattle smashes its brain to smithereens and this causes animal to die prior to slaughter. (Isn't that the idea) Hence it is irreversible procedure (I thought death was irreversible.) and cannot be deemed to be halal. Similarly gas smothers the animal or the bird and there is no known revival method, so this is also not allowed."

[boyfriday]

What are you talking about! The part you posted the animal goes back into the field!

 

This is what your article says.

 

"There are four known methods of rendering partially or completely immobilising the animals:

 

1. Captive bolt system used mainly on cattle

2. Gas system for asphyxiation

3. Electrical stunning for ovine animals and / or

4. Electric-water bath stunning, the type used for poultry

 

Captive bolt used on cattle smashes its brain to smithereens and this causes animal to die prior to slaughter. Hence it is irreversible procedure and cannot be deemed to be halal. Similarly gas smothers the animal or the bird and there is no known revival method, so this is also not allowed."

 

I think you're struggling with following the discussion Grahame and the article I linked to.

 

It was giving examples of all the various methods of stunning and reasons why they might not be used for halal meat.

 

The acid test is that stunning doesn't have the capacity to kill the animal-in other words, when tested stunned animals would recover without any ill effects (return to the field)-that could hardly be the case with a bolt through the head could it?

 

So they use the appliance developed by the Uni of Bristol, which stuns the beast sufficiently to incapacitate it, but not enough to kill it..it's then hung and bled like any other livestock, after having the religious nonsense chanted over it.