Toby Foster and Harrow Halal meat

[boyfriday]

Well if it was having my throat cut, I would prefer to be stunned first. Scientific evidence has proven that non stunned slaughter is definatley not instantaneous. The RSPCA, DEFRA, VIVAB, BVA and many other organisations want this slaughter banned from the UK does that not tell you something??

 

It tells me a lot of things, but it doesn't tell me it is or isn't instantaneous.

 

The RSPCA and Food Standards Agency endorse the captive bolt for 'stunning' cattle, do you think that's particularly humane?

[KAREN4697]

It tells me a lot of things, but it doesn't tell me it is or isn't instantaneous.

 

The RSPCA and Food Standards Agency endorse the captive bolt for 'stunning' cattle, do you think that's particularly humane?

 

Answer my question, before I answer yours

[boyfriday]

Answer my question, before I answer yours

 

Sorry, what was the question?

[KAREN4697]

If it was you having your throat slit, would you prefer to be fully conscious or stunned first? I know which one I would pick

[boyfriday]

If it was you having your throat slit, would you prefer to be fully conscious or stunned first? I know which one I would pick

 

I've already said in reply to your earlier post that all animals should be stunned-it was the method of stunning I was asking about.

 

If you were having your throat slit would you prefer to be electrocuted or gassed, or have a cartridge bolt fired through your skull and into your brain, which occasionally fails so has to be done again?

[Grahame]

I cannot understand why boyfriday is arguing AGAINST the the recommendations of the RSPCA and others who argue for humane killing, while at the same time defending the highly criticised and barbarous slow death of an animal that has its spinal chord and nervous system fully functioning and is painfully aware of everything that is happening to it as it slowly dies.

[boyfriday]

I cannot understand why boyfriday is arguing AGAINST the the recommendations of the RSPCA and others who argue for humane killing, while at the same time defending the highly criticised and barbarous slow death of an animal that has its spinal chord and nervous system fully functioning and is painfully aware of everything that is happening to it as it slowly dies.

 

You can't understand it because I'm not arguing against the humane killing of animals, nor am I defending the slow death of an animal as I dont believe it's slow whether the animal is stunned or not

 

..keep up Grahame, I only confirmed it in the post above yours and several times before that.

 

What I cant understand is the confusion that exists surrounding pre-stunned halal meat, it's actually stunned in a more 'humane' way than conventional livestock ie electrodes, rather than the captive bolt, which you yourself said is unreliable.

[Grahame]

You can't understand it because I'm not arguing against the humane killing of animals, nor am I defending the slow death of an animal as I dont believe it's slow whether the animal is stunned or not

 

..keep up Grahame, I only confirmed it in the post above yours and several times before that.

 

What I cant understand is the confusion that exists surrounding pre-stunned halal meat, it's actually stunned in a more 'humane' way than conventional livestock ie electrodes, rather than the captive bolt, which you yourself said is unreliable.

 

Perhaps because of this quote below. If the heart stops the meat is not halal and that is the reason Muslims say pre-stunned meat is haraam (illegal).

 

If meat from pre-stunned animals is sold as halal, then as far as I can tell the vendor is lying.

 

"Cattle are too big to be stunned effectively by a single current passing from the head to the feet. The current may bypass the brain. Even though the heart is stopped by the electrical current, the animal may feel the shock. To induce instant insensibility, the current must enter the brain and cause a grand mal epileptic seizure."

 

http://www.grandin.com/humane/elec.stunning.cattle.html

 

Let's face it, if meat is to be halal it cannot be pre-stunned because the heart stops whatever method is used and for it to be halal the heart needs to be pumping.

 

You cannot defend halal by saying it is humane. It would be a lie and the public conned and misled.

 

 

[boyfriday]

Perhaps because of this quote below. If the heart stops the meat is not halal and that is the reason Muslims say pre-stunned meat is haraam (illegal).

We've already established the means that Muslims stun livestock is legal and it's halal, because they exclude the conventional methods which run the risk of stopping the heart before the throat is cut.

If meat from pre-stunned animals is sold as halal, then as far as I can tell the vendor is lying.

It isn't down to the vendor though is it? All meat that passes through slaughterhouses has to be certified by an FSA Meat Inspector (even if it isn't why are you worried about it?)

"Cattle are too big to be stunned effectively by a single current passing from the head to the feet. The current may bypass the brain. Even though the heart is stopped by the electrical current, the animal may feel the shock. To induce instant insensibility, the current must enter the brain and cause a grand mal epileptic seizure."

 

http://www.grandin.com/humane/elec.stunning.cattle.html

Well Bristol University and the Halal Food Authority would disagree with that, since they're successfully stunning animals using a device especially devised for the purpose of incapacitating halal livestock-linked earlier.

Let's face it, if meat is to be halal it cannot be pre-stunned because the heart stops whatever method is used and for it to be halal the heart needs to be pumping.

 

..well you must know better than the veterinary scientists at Bristol University and the Halal Food Authority.

You cannot defend halal by saying it is humane. That is a lie.

 

Well that isn't what I'm doing, I'm defending pre-stunned halal meat.

[Grahame]

We've already established the means that Muslims stun livestock is legal and it's halal, because they exclude the conventional methods which run the risk of stopping the heart before the throat is cut.

It isn't down to the vendor though is it? All meat that passes through slaughterhouses has to be certified by an FSA Meat Inspector (even if it isn't why are you worried about it?)

Well Bristol University and the Halal Food Authority would disagree with that, since they're successfully stunning animals using a device especially devised for the purpose of incapacitating halal livestock-linked earlier.

 

 

..well you must know better than the veterinary scientists at Bristol University and the Halal Food Authority.

 

 

Well that isn't what I'm doing, I'm defending pre-stunned halal meat.

 

Muslims do not pre-stun.