Toby Foster and Harrow Halal meat

[carly83]

Stunning is NOT allowed. To be true halal meat it CANNOT be pre-stunned. The whole idea is that the brain and nervous system are fully functional. This means MAXIMUM PAIN and SUFFERING to the animal.

 

4. Do not harm the animal

It is Haram to harm the animal before slaughter using methods such as stunning, striking it or giving it an electric shock.

 

Jabir ibn Abdullah (ra) said: “The Messenger (saw) forbade tormenting any kind of animal to death” [sahih Muslim]

http://www.islambase.tk

 

STUNNING IS NOT A HALAL METHOD OF SLAUGHTER!

In the west it has become common practice for the slaughtering houses to stun the animal first before slaughtering with a knife. There are many types of stunning techniques used today such as,

 

1.) The captive bolt pistol (used for cows/cattle)

2.) Electric stunning (used for sheep)

3.) Electrified water bath (used for poultry)

4.) Carbon dioxide (co2) gas (used for pigs)

 

The basic assumption being that by stunning the animal prior to cutting the throat it is less painful. This has been disproved by recent scientific finding, yet the practice continues.

 

Stunning is not allowed as an Islamic method of slaughtering as it causes harm the animal as well restricts spilling of the blood from the animal once the blade is applied to it blood vessels.

 

The Islamic method of slaughtering does not touch the nervous system at all; rather it allows the brain to function and thereby keeps the heart working expelling as much blood as possible.

 

YOU CANNOT STUN AN ANIMAL AND CALL IT HALAL. This is against Islamic law.

 

http://www.missionislam.com/knowledge/books/HalalMeat.pdf

 

 

 

your argument is consistenly flawed, filled with out of date info and out of date links to back up, MASS produced halal meat in this country is pre-stunned (halal lite if that makes it easyer for you).

 

the start of your argument (severallllll pages back) was that you were happy with 'our'process as the animal was stunned to death then slaughtered, untill you were proved wrong the animals were stunned unconcious- then slaughtered so the heart can pump the blood out of the carcus preventing the blood clotting in the meat. mass produced halal meat is done the exact same way with the execption of a little religious prey and the animals being slaughtered alone so other animal do not witness what is happening.

 

everyone on this thread has said they support pre-stunned halal as its done the exact as stanard british meat.

 

personaly think the captive bolt is a far worse death than a swift slice across the neck, i know id rather be killed by my arterys being cut and my brain loosing oxygen within a few seconds than have a bolt fired through my skull to electricute me and possible have to be done a second time as the first attempt did not work.

 

if your so angry and upset about animals being killed purely for food then fine be a vegitarien.

 

im british - white, and of no religion, this does not mean i don't have the insight of maturity to relise that religion is important to alot of people, my only problem with religion is when people try to preach to me about there god etc, thats normaly christians though not muslims.

 

seems to me your problem is more over the people eating halal meat than the process its self as your argument has changed so many times.

 

back to topic if you think schools shouldn't serve halal meat because you don't want anything relatingt to muslims then grow a pair and come out and say it if not accept that alot of muslims find pre stunned halal meat acceptable and as the links supplied to you have been shown this is what the schools are being supplied with.

[s.hawkins]

Halal should be banned, as it is even more cruel than the non-halal method of slaughtering animals. But if you eat meat, then I think it is hypocritical to condemn halal. There is no method of slaughtering that does not cause suffering and stress to animals.

 

i am of the opinion that uk meat is not true halal as the animal is prestuned.

[boyfriday]

If it is pre-stunned it is not halal and if they pass it off as though it is, they are lying.

 

Simple as.

 

Even if that's the case (which it isn't) why are you worried about it?

 

It's not important to you, me or anyone non Muslim if they're claiming pre stunned meat is 'real' halal or not.

[boyfriday]

i am of the opinion that uk meat is not true halal as the animal is prestuned.

 

Could you explain why you believe that?

[s.hawkins]

Could you explain why you believe that?

 

stunning is not halal, i do not mean anything negative

[Grahame]

Even if that's the case (which it isn't) why are you worried about it?

 

It's not important to you, me or anyone non Muslim if they're claiming pre stunned meat is 'real' halal or not.

 

1.) People should be told the truth.

 

2.) Meat should not be passed off in schools as halal when it isn't.

 

3.) People should have the choice and school children aren't being allowed that.

 

4.) Tax-payers shouldn't have to pick up the extra tab.

 

5.) It amounts to a monopoly which is illegal.

 

6.) If it is pre-stunned then people might as well buy meat that has been slaughtered in the conventional way.

 

7.) If it is being passed off as one thing and it isn't then it is an offence against the trade description act.

 

8.) In short if it is not halal according to Islamic teaching, then it is a Muslim perpetrated confidence trick against the general public.

[boyfriday]

1.) People should be told the truth.

Surely it's up to the individual Muslim to decide whether he/she believes pre-stunning invalidates halal meat? After all there are enough personal interpretations of the Bible amongst Christians.

2.) Meat should not be passed off in schools as halal when it isn't.

Again, that's for the people who eat it to decide, if they don't believe pre-stunning makes it halal, then I'm sure they won't eat it.

3.) People should have the choice and school children aren't being allowed that.

Yes, they are. The schools in the OP can exercise their own choices in terms of catering supplier(s), it isn't dictated by the LEA

4.) Tax-payers shouldn't have to pick up the extra tab.

How do you know halal is more expensive? The last time I saw it in the ASDA in Dewsbury it was cheaper, if that's a concern, should we ban conventional meat because it might be more expensive in some places? Of course not.

5.) It amounts to a monopoly which is illegal.

Sorry you've lost me there, what's a monopoly? As far as I know schools have a choice of catering supplier, it just so happens that the supplier in the OP (Harrison Catering Services) supplies halal only meat, but they aren't the only choice in Harrow, that's why the story Toby Foster highlighted is a red herring.

6.) If it is pre-stunned then people might as well buy meat that has been slaughtered in the conventional way.

Third time I've asked you this question-what makes holy water holy? Why dont Christians use any old tap water?

7.) If it is being passed off as one thing and it isn't then it is an offence against the trade description act.

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Nobody's hiding the fact the meat is pre-stunned. If Muslims are happy eating it, then they're happy with the definition. It would be a trading offence if they described it as stunned and it wasn't.

8.) In short if it is not halal according to Islamic teaching, then it is a Muslim perpetrated confidence trick against the general public.

It is not halal amongst some Muslims, but they have the choice whether to eat pre-stunned meat or not as it's described as such at the point of sale..so there is no deception.

[Grahame]

Surely it's up to the individual Muslim to decide whether he/she believes pre-stunning invalidates halal meat? After all there are enough personal interpretations of the Bible amongst Christians.

Again, that's for the people who eat it to decide, if they don't believe pre-stunning makes it halal, then I'm sure they won't eat it.

Yes, they are. The schools in the OP can exercise their own choices in terms of catering supplier(s), it isn't dictated by the LEA

How do you know halal is more expensive? The last time I saw it in the ASDA in Dewsbury it was cheaper, if that's a concern, should we ban conventional meat because it might be more expensive in some places? Of course not.

Sorry you've lost me there, what's a monopoly? As far as I know schools have a choice of catering supplier, it just so happens that the supplier in the OP (Harrison Catering Services) supplies halal only meat, but they aren't the only choice in Harrow, that's why the story Toby Foster highlighted is a red herring.

Third time I've asked you this question-what makes holy water holy? Why dont Christians use any old tap water?

How do you arrive at that conclusion? Nobody's hiding the fact the meat is pre-stunned. If Muslims are happy eating it, then they're happy with the definition. It would be a trading offence if they described it as stunned and it wasn't.

It is not halal amongst some Muslims, but they have the choice whether to eat pre-stunned meat or not as it's described as such at the point of sale..so there is no deception.

 

I cannot be bothered to argue with your nonsense. Regarding "Holy Water" I haven't a clue what you are talking about. Water is water. Simple as, the same as understanding the defination of halal meat which also seems beyond you.

 

 

[boyfriday]

stunning is not halal, i do not mean anything negative

 

LOL, dont be so defensive, I didn't believe you were being negative-you're entitled to be if you want to be!

 

As far as I can see there isn't any prohibition on an animal being unconscious when it's slaughtered, if that were the case then I think the pre-stunning Muslims would find themselves in difficulties.

 

The requirement is that the animal is alive when it has it's throat cut. This seems to cause great consternation, but it's generally the case with all cattle that's slaughtered anyway.

 

Some Muslims believe that because there's a risk of stunning ending the life of the animal that it invalidates the halal status of the meat, others don't believe that and I guess they're happy to take a sensible view and eat it..it doesn't make them sinful.

[mort]

if this thread descends into bickering and name-calling it will be closed and further action may be taken.