Toby Foster and Harrow Halal meat

[kabacha]

LOL, I wasn't really talking about the more sensational stuff, but British people who have moved abroad, have quite understandably wanted to retain the aspects of their culture that they hold dear, the same could be said for most nationalities.

 

The phrase 'when in Rome' is often trotted out, yet I can't really think of many cultures who embrace that entirely, and we British certainly wouldn't be amongst them.

Oh sorry I thought I'd generalise on the same scale that the hate brigade tends to do regularly. As for the 'when in Rome ....' statement I don't think even the Romans respected that dictat and the British certainly didn't, so the ignorants trotting out that phrase usually are only doing so because they have little else to offer a debate.

[kabacha]

You and me both know that the problem here is not meat is it?

Correct, it's your prejudice.

[milquetoast1]

A few observations I have made over the years on this subject:

 

1. In general, particularly since we are talking about the genuine suffering about fellow stakeholders on our planet, I would prefer that we follow farming and slaughter methods using evidence about which methods are best. The only justification for using religious methods can only be if they are also backed by evidence to be the most effective at reducing suffering.

 

2. I don't accept the argument from people (often vegetarians like myself ironically) that if you are a meat eater then somehow you are not allowed to care about the how the animals have been cared for.

 

3. There does seem to be a version of "halal light" that is becoming acceptable with an increasing number of Muslims. If stunning animals prior to cutting their throats is shown to involve an amount of suffering no more that more established methods, then nobody should have cause for complaint. Indeed, if this "halal light" is shown to involve less suffering, then it should become the established method.

 

4. Whilst there is an increasing number of Muslims willing to accept "halal light", there is also an increasing number of Muslims that are not (there being increasing numbers of Muslims), who insist that animals should not be stunned. I welcome the EC ruling that all such meat should in future be labelled accordingly, but would much prefer if it was not allowed at all.

 

5. Surely religious restrictions are intended to make life more difficult for the faithful, rather than more difficult for the non-faithful? That's part of the whole point, to show your loyalty to your god. If the increasing halalification of our food industry is for evidence based reduction in suffering then fine, but please show us the evidence, because so far the RSPCA and Farm Animal Welfare Council are unimpressed. However, if the increasing halalification of our food industry is simply to make life easier for Muslims, then what's the point, god's not going to be very impressed with that.

[Cozmo]

Can' t the muslim boys and girls eat none halal meat?

 

Hell no way, of course they cant eat non-halal meat. They, like Christians and Jewish are part of a group that demands special treatment and gets very very facey when they dont get their own way. Can you imagine the propaganda that would be touted around if religious people had to do something such as that....

The words oppression, offensive, phobia etc spring to mind.

 

Come on mattyuk1 you should know by now that religion give its members the right to be treated differently from the rest of us, we have to accept this and even support it fully or we are racist, islamaphobic, 'christian'phobic (??) anitsematic etc.

[milquetoast1]

Thye only problem some Muslims have with pre-stunning is that there is a chance the animal could be declared dead before the cut to the throat and jugular etc. The method of Kosher acceptable in some cases with the animal being stunned immediately after the cut seems to me to be a good compromise even to that little argument. As it has already been accepted for the Jewish community then I don't see any reason why it wouldn't be for the Muslims apart for those who have other reasons for objecting of course.

There's a hint of the "you didn't object to the Jewish community, so why do you object to us" argument in there.

 

Firstly, all the arguments made against Halal are equally applicable to Kosher, and the arguments are against religious slaughter as a whole not just one in particular.

 

Secondly there's is a reason why the secular community was a lot quieter in it's objections against religious slaughter 20 years ago, and Kosher in particular, and that's because there was a lot less of it about.

 

I have never seen an establishment in Sheffield advertising Kosher, and 20 years ago there was little Halal either.

 

There's very little data on the amount of ritual slaughter that actually occurs in the UK, the only tentative evidence I could find is from The Animal Welfare Review 2003 which reported on one week of slaughtering practices. In the period 1–7 September 2003, the following animals were slaughtered without stunning. It reported that 2446 were Kosher, and 16657 were Halal. It has been suggested that 20 years ago the numbers of Kosher and Halal slaughters were about the same, and in the last 10 years the numbers of Halal slaughters have increased 5-10 times. Kosher has remained steady during that time.

[Tipex]

..as can non Muslim children eat halal meat.

 

Problem solved, whats everyone moaning about?

[boyfriday]

Problem solved, whats everyone moaning about?

 

..you're quite right, the reason for making the point is that most non Muslim children have quite innocently and enthusiastically troughed down halal meat when they eat restaurant curries, doner kebabs and burgers from non franchised takeaways.

 

Conversely the same isn't true for Muslim or Jewish children who are pretty much constrained by what they can eat .

[Grahame]

Hell no way, of course they cant eat non-halal meat. They, like Christians and Jewish are part of a group that demands special treatment and gets very very facey when they dont get their own way. Can you imagine the propaganda that would be touted around if religious people had to do something such as that....

The words oppression, offensive, phobia etc spring to mind.

 

Come on mattyuk1 you should know by now that religion give its members the right to be treated differently from the rest of us, we have to accept this and even support it fully or we are racist, islamaphobic, 'christian'phobic (??) anitsematic etc.

 

What sort of special treatment do Christians get?

[Tipex]

What sort of special treatment do Christians get?

 

I'm wondering same :/

[Toby]

The fact is, The Daily Star once again printed a daft headline, that wasn't true. That was all.