What existed before the big bang? Something must have!

[truman]

Incorrect Jimmy. scientific logic(which is what I'm questioning)has everything to do with it. Simply because it cannot support it's own claim that nothing exists beyond the expanding universe, nor can it satisfactorily explain the question that I've asked.

 

Logic dictates that something can't be in 2 places at once...quantum theory disputes that..is QT wrong?

[danot]

You insist on claiming that the argument is flawed, but you've yet to point at any flaw in it. If you can't find one, you must conclude that it not flawed, however much you think it makes no sense.

Then why don't scientists do the same instead of making unsupported presumption.

[danot]

Logic dictates that something can't be in 2 places at once...quantum theory disputes that..is QT wrong?

That would all depend on there reasoning, scientists conclude in mysterious ways.

[truman]

That would all depend on there reasoning, scientists conclude in mysterious ways.

 

So why don't you accept their interpretation of the "big bang"...?

[Obelix]

that maybe why it's flawed Obelix.

 

Why what is flawed?

[danot]

So why don't you accept their interpretation of the "big bang"...?

The same reason I haven't accepted the interpretation of Johvo's... I'd like proof!

[Obelix]

Then why don't scientists do the same instead of making unsupported presumption.

 

They don't. If I cannot explain something as a scientist I say so. If I can explain I give my reasonings why, and the logic behind them in a paper. No scientists makes an unsupported presumption and calls it proof, at best it's a hypothesis that is to be tested, and even a hypothesis requires something fir it to be postulated in the first place.

[truman]

The same reason I haven't accepted the interpretation of Johvo's... I'd like proof!

 

So do you accept quantum theory..?

[Obelix]

The same reason I haven't accepted the interpretation of Johvo's... I'd like proof!

 

The proof for the Big Bang is in the matter around you that you can touch, and in the cosmic microwave background that bathes us in a 3 Kelvin deluge of microwaves.

[onewheeldave]

The ideology behind this theory is deeply flawed.

 

The very idea that something can materialise out of nothing, then expand exponentially, consuming a nothingness(which is also expanding) as it does so is nonsensical to the extreme.

 

At any given moment during the expansion of our universe, there has to be areas of "expanding nothingness" being constantly occupied by the expanding matter.

 

The "expanding nothingness" that lies beyond the extreme edges our expanding universe must be the part of the very same "expanding nothingness" that occupies the areas between the galaxies.. It has to be!

 

Ok- if you're going to insist that a space requires a further space to exist in, or to expand into, then you're going to require an infinite regress of such spaces.

 

The 2nd space, which contains the first one, will similarly require a 3rd space to contain it.

 

The third space will require a 4th space, with, in turn, requires a 5t, etc..etc..etc

 

That never ends- it yields an infinite heirachy of higher spaces.

 

It may be that you're OK with that, but, when it comes to actual spaces, it cannot be, because we're talking about the creation of universes and hence, the creation of each of those spaces.

 

Space no.1 cannot exist until space no.2 does, because, on your original premise, that a space must be contained within a higher space, space no.1 cannot exist until it's container (space no.2) does.

 

Space no.2, similarly, cannot exist till space no.3 does, which, in turn can't exist untill....etc...etc.

 

Space no.1, in short, cannot exist until the entire infinite sequence of higherachy's of higher spaces actually exists in it's entirety- a position which is not possible as the sequence is infinite.

 

The only logical conclusion is that your original premise, that space must be contained, is wrong- thus the opposite [/i]must[/i] be true- that space does not require a further space to contain it.