What existed before the big bang? Something must have!

[artisan]

as I stated before nothing is not "nothing", empty space has energy, this energy can create a universe

 

whether it did or not is a different question

 

No, nothing existed.Space and time did not exist.

There was no space at at all.

The entire thing was not here.

As I say, the human mind cannot envisage it.

Until the singularitary began to expand then nothing at all existed, no space, no time, no vacuums or whatever.

[HeadingNorth]

;6571624']I've not been reading this thread but can anyone tell me if this has been covered?

 

http://www.tgdaily.com/space-features/49265-our-universe-may-be-inside-a-black-hole-says-physicist

 

Only to the extent that, if it is true, it does not explain the original creation of things. We wouldn't know where that black hole came from, or how.

[danot]

You dont seem to get your head around the 'nothing' idea.

You seem to be thinking of a vacuum, or something.

The sheer fact is that there was nothing.

Space and Time did not exist, there was nothing to expand into.

Until the singularity expanded nothing was there.

It is impossible for the human mind to comprehend.

Precisely!, scientists even admit that they haven't the foggiest what dark matter is, yet somehow, they're in no doubt that it can't be contained.

[HeadingNorth]

Precisely!, scientists even admit that they haven't the foggiest what dark matter is, yet somehow, they're in no doubt that it can't be contained.

 

 

Knowing what it is requires observation and study. The question of whether or not all things are contained, however, is solvable by elementary logic. Science does not even come into it.

[danot]

It isn't necessary to be well-educated to understand why your claim is false. Even I can prove that your claim is false, and I did so at the very beginning of this thread.

My claim is only false due to flawed reasoning.

[esme]

Do you ever get the feeling you're blowing it out of yer ass?

 

no, may I suggest you read up on zero point energy http://www.calphysics.org/zpe.html

[[Matt]]

Precisely!, scientists even admit that they haven't the foggiest what dark matter is, yet somehow, they're in no doubt that it can't be contained.

...there's also the possibility that dark matter may simply be a byproduct of a complete misunderstanding of relativity and that there may be something fundamentally wrong with Einsteins equations.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fudge_factor#Dark_matter

[plekhanov]

Oh step down off your soap box.

 

Who's talking about using the internet?.. what do computers have to do with my reasons for calling scientists arrogant?.

You taking the internet for granted and not pausing to consider it's existence whilst using it as a medium to attack science is rather the point.

 

I had thought I'd made my point clear enough for even you to understand but apparently I hadn't so I'll try again.

• The internet is a product of science
  
• As such your attacks upon science are rather undermined by them being made over the internet which owes it's very existence to "arrogant", "conceited scientists"
  

If science is a worthless as you suggest then you clearly wouldn't be able to attack it over the internet now would you?

 

This is the problem with the "well educated", their inability to think outside of the box debilitates them, they're reasoning is restricted by the flawed text book theories that their scientific peers, claim they know, but cannot explain.

It's astonishingly arrogant that you seem to consider your personal inability to comprehend certain scientific theories not as evidence that you aren't very bright but as evidence that the theories themselves are "flawed".

[esme]

No, nothing existed.Space and time did not exist.

There was no space at at all.

The entire thing was not here.

As I say, the human mind cannot envisage it.

Until the singularitary began to expand then nothing at all existed, no space, no time, no vacuums or whatever.

 

I didn't say they did exist

 

and you and I can't envisage it but I believe you are wrong when you state "the human mind cannot envisage it"

[[Matt]]

Only to the extent that, if it is true, it does not explain the original creation of things. We wouldn't know where that black hole came from, or how.

But if it is true would that mean that it would be possible for our universe to be a construct within a multiverse that has always existed?