onewheeldave Posted August 12, 2010 Share Posted August 12, 2010 No. What I'm saying is what I've been saying for the whole of the last thirty pages. The assumption that the Universe must be contained, leads logically to the conclusion that it does not need to be contained. Since this is a self-contradiction, the assumption is false. The Universe does not need to be contained. Ditto for "The Big Bang must have had a cause." That assumption, again, leads to a self-contradiction and is false; the Big Bang does not need to have had a cause. Ok, so due to the assumption leading to a self-contradiction, the assumption is no longer an assumption. So what is it?.. and please.. don't tell me it's a Theory. It's a standard logical technique- if an assumption leads to a contradiction, then that assumption must be false- no need for any experiments, or theories- it's false, by logic alone, because it lead to a contradiction. Talk of 'the assumption is no longer an assumption' is nonsense/irrelevant' and that kind of babble is exactly why you're being seen as a troll. If an assumption leads to a contradiction, then that assumption must be false- that's it, plain and simple. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Reductio_ad_absurdum http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proof_by_contradiction Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Ok, so due to the assumption leading to a self-contradiction, the assumption is no longer an assumption. So what is it? False. As in, your claim that "something must have preceded the Big Bang" is false. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.hawkins Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Yes, I know the obvious answer is,'nothing existed before the big bang; how could it?.. but to accept that theory defies logical. Something must have existed before the singularity, which went on to form our universe exploded/expanded(whatever)into being. How could time and space not exist before this; well I'll accept that time couldn't exist before it, but space must have, or at least something to the affect of space must have existed to allow the expansion of the singularity. So does anyone have any theories on this cos it's mind-boggling. the taxman? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 Trolling is nothing to do with disagreeing with someone- it's totally OK to disagree. The reason why, IMO (and, of course, the opinion of the other posters here who've accused you of it), is the fact that you're talking about logic when you've clearly no understanding of it, your tendency to off on bizarre tangents when proved wrong, your dishonesty (e.g. pointlessly arguing a point for pages and pages, then admitting you knew all along that the point was nonsense) etc, etc. Ultimately, it's a matter of judgement, and, in my judgement, you're trolling. I'm sure you'll disagree. But, I assure you, you're not being accused of trolling cos you disagree and, it's nothing whatsoever to do with whatever religious views you hold. I didn't admit to knowing the points that I have argued were nonsense. I agreed with HeadingNorth that when applying logical reasoning to this issue, it can only prove the assumption true, in other words:- 'it can only confirm what a given scientist assumed would be true, or likely to be true'... nothing more!. Furthermore, I haven't been trolling, I've simply been expressing my personal views because I don't adhere to the - 'actually, it's Theory not theory' line of reasoning. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HeadingNorth Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 Furthermore, I haven't been trolling, I've simply been expressing my personal views because I don't adhere to the - 'actually, it's Theory not theory' line of reasoning. The difference between theory, the lay definition, and Theory, the scientific definition, is not a "line of reasoning.." It's inherent in the definitions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
onewheeldave Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I didn't admit to knowing the points that I have argued were nonsense. You did- here I'm aware that my claim makes no sense, but having said that, neither does the alternative. my reply being- Great- you're aware that your claim makes no sense Why didn't you say that 10 pages back and saved me the work of explaining and re-explaining the same argument 5 times?? Furthermore, I haven't been trolling, I've simply been expressing my personal views because I don't adhere to the - 'actually, it's Theory not theory' line of reasoning. Like I said above, expressing personal views does not amount to trolling, the reasons you're seen as a troll are as I explained above. 'actually, it's Theory not theory' line of reasoning. What does that mean??? Why would you assume that we're going to know what you mean when you come out with these lines? Why don't you make an effort and clarify these lines so people have half a chance of knowing what you're talking about? Again, this is something you've done throughout the thread and is another reason you're seen as trolling- you're in a debate, so communication is key- your use of lines like that and, your use of standard logical terms but with your own personal meaning/definitions, is the source of the confusion that surrounds most of your posts. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
danot Posted August 13, 2010 Author Share Posted August 13, 2010 The difference between theory, the lay definition, and Theory, the scientific definition, is not a "line of reasoning.." It's inherent in the definitions.I know it is.. yet they are viewed differently.. why? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
splodgeyAl Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 I know it is.. yet they are viewed differently.. why? Why are they viewed differently? Because they are different things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
s.hawkins Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 islamic faith Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
beemerchez Posted August 13, 2010 Share Posted August 13, 2010 For anyone who is interested theres alot of info on stephen hawkins website its all a good read if you have the time. http://www.hawking.org.uk/index.php/lectures/publiclectures/94 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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