What existed before the big bang? Something must have!

[plekhanov]

You obviously haven't noticed, we're talking about the BB Theory... not the BB theory. Does that give you a clue?

What difference do you imagine capitalising the "t" in theory makes to anything?

[onewheeldave]

Yes, I know the obvious answer is,'nothing existed before the big bang; how could it?.. but to accept that theory defies logical. Something must have existed before the singularity, which went on to form our universe exploded/expanded(whatever)into being.

 

How could time and space not exist before this; well I'll accept that time couldn't exist before it, but space must have, or at least something to the affect of space must have existed to allow the expansion of the singularity.

 

So does anyone have any theories on this cos it's mind-boggling.

 

Just nipping back to the first post on this thread- it's worth mentioning that, from the viewpoint of modern physics based on Einstein's relativity, neither time nor space can exist in isolation- instead they are simply aspects of spacetime.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

 

As, in our physical reality, the rate of time flow varies according to the relative velocity of an object- literally the 'time component' is traded off against the 'space component'- in relativity space and time are not individual, but simply aspects of one spacetime.

 

Obviously, none of this wil trouble Danot unnecessarily, as he considers scientists to be ignorant cads (presumably including Einstein?)- however, to any posters who do acknowledge the validity of modern relativistic physics, the inevitable conclusion would be that, if time couldn't exist before the Big-bang, then space couldn't either.

[danot]

Just nipping back to the first post on this thread- it's worth mentioning that, from the viewpoint of modern physics based on Einstein's relativity, neither time nor space can exist in isolation- instead they are simply aspects of spacetime.

 

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Spacetime

 

As, in our physical reality, the rate of time flow varies according to the relative velocity of an object- literally the 'time component' is traded off against the 'space component'- in relativity space and time are not individual, but simply aspects of one spacetime.

 

Obviously, none of this wil trouble Danot unnecessarily, as he considers scientists to be ignorant cads (presumably including Einstein?)- however, to any posters who do acknowledge the validity of modern relativistic physics, the inevitable conclusion would be that, if time couldn't exist before the Big-bang, then space couldn't either.

 

No-one should be troubled by it onewheeldave.

 

So what about dark energy?.. are we to assume it didn't exist before the BB?

[Cyclone]

Nothing existed before existence, why would you keep asking about 'before' time. There can't be before time and there can't be anything in existence before existence.

[HeadingNorth]

That only tells me how theories are applied, and to what they are applicable to, but I asked what makes the two different?.. all theories are conjecture until proven otherwise, so what's the key difference between Theory and theory??

 

 

A theory (lay definition) is called a conjecture or a hypothesis by scientists, and only becomes a Theory (scientific definition) once there is convincing evidence to support it; convincing enough, that is, for science in general to regard it as "proven" pending further contradictory evidence.

[danot]

Nothing existed before existence, why would you keep asking about 'before' time. There can't be before time and there can't be anything in existence before existence.

The reason I keep asking is this:- If you visualise the universe in your mind, then reverse the expansion. where's has the universe gone?

 

EDIT:It's late.

[HeadingNorth]

The reason I keep asking is this:- If you visualise the universe in your mind, then reverse the expansion. where's has the universe gone?

 

Failure of thinking again. (Not just yours personally, and that isn't meant as an insult; the point is that the human mind, being evolved to deal with earthbound things, can't comprehend the Universe on its own terms.)

 

 

The Universe didn't come from anywhere, and watching it in reverse it wouldn't go to anywhere. There wouldn't be anywhere for it to go.

 

The best way I've seen it described is that "it doesn't make sense to ask about the time and space before the Big Bang, because the time and the space are not there. Even there isn't there!"

[danot]

Failure of thinking again. (Not just yours personally, and that isn't meant as an insult; the point is that the human mind, being evolved to deal with earthbound things, can't comprehend the Universe on its own terms.)

 

 

The Universe didn't come from anywhere, and watching it in reverse it wouldn't go to anywhere. There wouldn't be anywhere for it to go.

 

The best way I've seen it described is that "it doesn't make sense to ask about the time and space before the Big Bang, because the time and the space are not there. Even there isn't there!"

I agree with you, the human mind isn't capable of comprehending the universe on it's own terms. Yet we accept the universe cannot be contained within something because human logic finds the concept contradictory. Can you still not see my point?

[HeadingNorth]

I agree with you, the human mind isn't capable of comprehending the universe on it's own terms. Yet we accept the universe cannot be contained within something because human logic finds the concept contradictory. Can you still not see my point?

 

You don't have a point. We may not be capable of comprehending the universe, but we can certainly comprehend basic logic. If a given claim leads to a self-contradiction, it is not possible under any circumstances whatsoever for that claim to be true - inside the Universe or outside of it.

[Cyclone]

The reason I keep asking is this:- If you visualise the universe in your mind, then reverse the expansion. where's has the universe gone?

 

EDIT:It's late.

 

Try to understand what not existing means. It doesn't mean a large empty space, it does mean a really quiet room. It means there was nothing. No existence, no time, no space, no concept of before because there was nothing to be before and nothing to create the big bang because existence hadn't happened.

We don't have a way to explain what before time means because we can't really imagine what 'time didn't exist' means, but that's what you have to try to do.