What existed before the big bang? Something must have!

[plekhanov]

Maybe to your satisfaction, but not to all.

What put the singularity into place?

We are doing the same thing now with the Hydron Collider.

Creating instantaneous singularities.

They may be instantaneous to us, but how we know that billions of years have not passed on them?

Think about things, instead of rejecting them out of hand, because they do not suit your ideas.

The Universe may be the result of some collider elsewhere.

Yes and? How is any of that bog standard musing upon multiverses supposed to be a response to the argument that it is idiotic to attempt to define things into existence?

[artisan]

Yes and? How is any of that bog standard musing upon multiverses supposed to be a response to the argument that it is idiotic to attempt to define things into existence?

 

Tell me where the singularity came from then.

You cant, OK.

[plekhanov]

If God is, by nature and by definition, always-existing, uncreated and incapable of non-existence, then there is no way God could be 'defined into existence' is there?

 

Because, to define something into existence requires that it does not exist prior to the act- which, if God is by nature and by definition, always-existing, uncreated and incapable of non-existence, could not be the case.

 

Similarly, we can define a triangle as having three sides, but the fact remains that all triangles had three sides prior to our act of definition.

 

Is this meant to be a joke? Attempting to, as you have just done, define a sky pixie into existence in no way renders doing so a valid argument.

 

There's no end to the fantastical beings you can define, that doesn't magically mean they exist or that people should treat the prospect that they do seriously.

 

I for example could say that "super-god" is by nature and by definition, always-existing, uncreated and incapable of non-existence and super-god for reasons we don't understand created God and instilled within God the belief that God wasn't created by super-god but is by nature and by definition, always-existing, uncreated and incapable of non-existence.

 

Does this definition mean that the concept of 'super-god' should be taken seriously?

[plekhanov]

Tell me where the singularity came from then.

You cant, OK.

Again how is this supposed to be a response to my argument that it is idiotic to try and define things into existence?

[artisan]

Again how is this supposed to be a response to my argument that it is idiotic to try and define things into existence?

 

So what do we do then? If we accept that space and time did not exist before the expansion of a 'singularity' (as I do), where did that singularity originate.

You seem to have the explanation, along with Hawking, whose words are edited by his computer, poor fellow.

So just tell me where it came from.

[plekhanov]

So what do we do then? If we accept that space and time did not exist before the expansion of a 'singularity' (as I do), where did that singularity originate.

You seem to have the explanation, along with Hawking, whose words are edited by his computer, poor fellow.

So just tell me where it came from.

Hawking apparently has something approaching an answer in his soon to be released book. I am content to say that I don't know why the universe came into existence and to leave it at that. Significantly I don't automatically assume that if I don't know something the answer to that is a magic man (who oddly usually seems to have a murderous need for humans to worship him and a peculiar obsession with what humans do with their genitals) did it.

 

Also once again how is this supposed to be a response to my argument that it is idiotic to try and define things into existence?

[HeadingNorth]

If God is, by nature and by definition, always-existing, uncreated and incapable of non-existence, then there is no way God could be 'defined into existence' is there?

 

 

And there's also no reason to postulate him in the first place, by that definition.

 

If you are willing to accept that things (God) can exist without needing to be created, then you can accept that things (the Universe) can exist without needing to be created; so you don't need a creator to explain the Universe, and the whole God hypothesis is irrelevant.

[artisan]

Hawking apparently has something approaching an answer in his soon to be released book. I am content to say that I don't know why the universe came into existence and to leave it at that. Significantly I don't automatically assume that if I don't know something the answer to that is a magic man (who oddly usually seems to have a murderous need for humans to worship him and a peculiar obsession with what humans do with their genitals) did it.

 

Also once again how is this supposed to be a response to my argument that it is idiotic to try and define things into existence?

 

Your god is entirely different to my god.

You seem to think that god is interested in humans or animals of any sort.

It think that god did one thing.

Created the Universe.

The Universe has run its own course since it started in the expansion of the so called 'Big Bang'.

Everything is a by product of that process.

The reason that humans need to believe in some god, is that we inadequate to the task of imagining the imensity of it all.

[HeadingNorth]

I think that god did one thing.

Created the Universe.

 

 

Offering that as an explanation for the existence of the Universe, is no explanation; it doesn't explain where God came from.

[artisan]

Offering that as an explanation for the existence of the Universe, is no explanation; it doesn't explain where God came from.

 

No it doesn't does it?

In that case the so called 'singularity' had existed for ever and just decided 15 billion years ago to make its presence felt.

You can call it what you want, but something was there, before time and space as we know it today.

 

Humans, as are all things made from atoms and molecules, came from exploding stars.

Our very essence did not exist at the origin of the Universe when the Laws of physics, thermodynamics, or whatever did not exist.

You are trying to explain the unexplainable.