What existed before the big bang? Something must have!

[Grahame]

I really don't get why people think it's 'miraculous' that the laws of the universe appear to be finely tuned for life.

It's like a puddle thinking it's miraculous that the edges of the whole fit it's form so well.

 

Whatever laws existed, we'd have come into being within them, they'd always appear to be just the perfect fit for our life, when in fact we're just confusing the causality and it's our form of life that is a perfect fit for the laws that were already there.

 

I think it is miraculous that the edges of the puddle were there in the first place.

 

[artisan]

I really don't get why people think it's 'miraculous' that the laws of the universe appear to be finely tuned for life.

It's like a puddle thinking it's miraculous that the edges of the whole fit it's form so well.

 

Whatever laws existed, we'd have come into being within them, they'd always appear to be just the perfect fit for our life, when in fact we're just confusing the causality and it's our form of life that is a perfect fit for the laws that were already there.

 

Exactly.

This is why I cannot understand all these people getting so upset about the fact that god exists.

The vanity to think that something that created all the laws of the Universe and The Universe its self should be bothered about their opinion is astounding.

Humans are so far down the cosmic food chain as to be undefineable, yet some seem to think the divine creator is bothered wether they think he exist or not is important.

[Mimi83]

nothing existed before the bigbang, except the love of god.

which will ilve for aye

 

well said ....

[splodgeyAl]

well said ....

 

You just made me think....

 

If the "love of god" is "infinite", and a "singularity" is the cosmological equivalent of "infinite" density (of matter, energy, whatever), and "infinity" is the mathematical equivalent of "huh, whatever!"

 

Hmmm....

[mickw]

Time, space and everything existed as a tiny dot in the middle of nothing.

 

Then it rapidly expanded to make everything you see today.

 

After it has finally finished expanding it will implode to get back to where it was before then it will start all over again.

It has, according to some sources, done this many times before.

 

So the outlook is bleak at some stage everything will cease to exist then reappear, but only slightly different.

 

Or not.

 

I won't be here then.

[artisan]

Ok, just thought this up read this, so bear with me:

 

In order for their to be nothing, the nothing must be somewhere. If it is nowhere, then there cannot be nothing because there is nowhere that the nothing could be. But, as soon as you say that the nothing was somewhere, it is no longer nothing because by defining it as somewhere you have set some parameters and so it cannot be described as nothing.

 

That sounds like Douglas Adams.

[HeadingNorth]

Exactly.

This is why I cannot understand all these people getting so upset about the fact that god exists.

 

Or, alternatively, about the fact that he doesn't.

 

 

There's no evidence one way or the other, and in the absence of evidence no reason to assume that there was a creator.

[HeadingNorth]

In order for their to be nothing, the nothing must be somewhere.

 

 

This is a faulty use of privatives. "Nothing" isn't a thing, it's just a word we use to describe the total non-existence of anything. In this case, the non-existence, not just of anything but also of anywhere that anything could be.

[mickw]

Ok to say that this material that expanded into everything that exists today was surrounded by nothing was a slip of the tongue (or keyboard)

You're absolutely right in saying that nothing is indeed something, it is(by implication)

What I should have said is all that material and time was all that existed.Full stop.

As it expanded it created time and space in its wake therefore creating something and nothing at the same instant.

 

I hope this makes everything clear now:suspect:

[Grahame]

Or, alternatively, about the fact that he doesn't.

 

 

There's no evidence one way or the other, and in the absence of evidence no reason to assume that there was a creator.

 

But still being upset.