'Hypocrisy' of speeding middle-class motorists

[zedhex]

Has anyone else mentioned the fact that when the 30 MPH limit was first introduced, the average car took 45ft to stop from 30mph? Any modern car can stop in less than half that distance. Logically, one would then assume that I am obeying the spirit of the law when travelling at 50mph in a 30 zone, as I can stop from fifty in that distance!

 

The real point we have here is that the chief constable who made this statement obviously lives if a different world from the rest of us. It is a problem common to all who are charged with enforcing laws - they tend to see the world in very black and white terms. I once drove a car at 110 - 120mph on a motorway for about 10 miles - on the M180, at about 4:30 AM, and in that entire journey, I didn't a single other car on the road. If she believes that such speeding is realistically comparable with genuinely anti-social behaviour (such as muggings and robberies), then she really should not be entrusted with such an influential position in the police service.

[Shy talk]

Pro speed camera people tend to be people that also want a stasi type state

[Eater Sundae]

Has anyone else mentioned the fact that when the 30 MPH limit was first introduced, the average car took 45ft to stop from 30mph? Any modern car can stop in less than half that distance. Logically, one would then assume that I am obeying the spirit of the law when travelling at 50mph in a 30 zone, as I can stop from fifty in that distance!

 

The real point we have here is that the chief constable who made this statement obviously lives if a different world from the rest of us. It is a problem common to all who are charged with enforcing laws - they tend to see the world in very black and white terms. I once drove a car at 110 - 120mph on a motorway for about 10 miles - on the M180, at about 4:30 AM, and in that entire journey, I didn't a single other car on the road. If she believes that such speeding is realistically comparable with genuinely anti-social behaviour (such as muggings and robberies), then she really should not be entrusted with such an influential position in the police service.

 

Are your reaction times similarly improved over those of a driver at the time of the 30 limit being introduced?

[zedhex]

Are your reaction times similarly improved over those of a driver at the time of the 30 limit being introduced?

 

Hmmm... you don't seem to do logic do you? My reaction times would be exactly the same, only the breaking distance would be shorter - I'll do some worked examples to make it clearer:

 

Calculating stopping distance at 30mph, we add 30ft thinking distance and 45ft breaking distance = 75ft (according to the Highway Code). When we translate this into modern terms, with modern breaking systems, it becomes 30ft + 22.5ft = 52.5ft total stopping distance.

 

If I do this for 40mph we get 40ft thinking distance + 60ft breaking distance = 100ft (according to the Highway Code). with a modern car this would come down to 40ft + 30ft = 70ft total stopping distance.

 

Therefore a modern car can stop faster from 40mph than the cars on which the highway code is based could at 30mph.

[Eater Sundae]

Hmmm... you don't seem to do logic do you? My reaction times would be exactly the same, only the breaking distance would be shorter - I'll do some worked examples to make it clearer:

 

Calculating stopping distance at 30mph, we add 30ft thinking distance and 45ft breaking distance = 75ft (according to the Highway Code). When we translate this into modern terms, with modern breaking systems, it becomes 30ft + 22.5ft = 52.5ft total stopping distance.

 

If I do this for 40mph we get 40ft thinking distance + 60ft breaking distance = 100ft (according to the Highway Code). with a modern car this would come down to 40ft + 30ft = 70ft total stopping distance.

 

Therefore a modern car can stop faster from 40mph than the cars on which the highway code is based could at 30mph.

 

So, imagine if a child ran out in front of you, in your old car when you were 40 feet away, travelling at 30 mph. By the time you hit him, you'd have been braking for the last 10 feet, and be travelling at just under 30 mph. In your modern car, with excellent brakes, you'd still be travelling at 40 mph when you hit him.

 

Also, your earlier claim assumed a 50 mph starting speed. I see it's now dropped to 40. I wonder why? ( I don't really).

 

Edit: I've just realised. Not only have you felt it necessary to change from 50mph to 40 mph, you also found it necessary to... er... "adjust" your results. The braking distance for 40 mph is (according to the highway code, which now works in metres) 24m, ie 80ft, not 60ft as you claim. Suddenly your calculation doesn't look quite so compelling, does it?

 

What did you say about logic?

[Eater Sundae]

A child hit by a car driving at 35 mph is more likely to die than a child hit at 30 mph. From an extremely selfish point of view it probably won't ruin your day, but it could ruin the day and future days of a grieving family.

 

My view is that, as well as having brightly-lit cameras to deter drivers from speeding near schools, the law should be changed to allow cameras to be hidden anywhere to catch these criminals. If drivers can pay enough attention to slow down where they know there is a camera, maybe such a law would encourage them to be able to concentrate on their driving on any road as there may be a hidden camera.

 

As someone else posted (not sure if it was on this thread) in answer to the claim that speed cameras are dangerous because they distract drivers.

 

Design the cameras to blend in with the background, so they do not distract the drivers. Then place large, clear speed limit signs at a reasonable distance before the cameras.

[Cyclone]

So, imagine if a child ran out in front of you, in your old car when you were 40 feet away, travelling at 30 mph. By the time you hit him, you'd have been braking for the last 10 feet, and be travelling at just under 30 mph. In your modern car, with excellent brakes, you'd still be travelling at 40 mph when you hit him.

 

Also, your earlier claim assumed a 50 mph starting speed. I see it's now dropped to 40. I wonder why? ( I don't really).

 

Edit: I've just realised. Not only have you felt it necessary to change from 50mph to 40 mph, you also found it necessary to... er... "adjust" your results. The braking distance for 40 mph is (according to the highway code, which now works in metres) 24m, ie 80ft, not 60ft as you claim. Suddenly your calculation doesn't look quite so compelling, does it?

 

What did you say about logic?

 

If you draw a graph of speed for both cars against the distance from breaking, the modern car would be below the old car for the full portion of the graph.

If the modern car was travelling faster (to a certain point), it would start above the old car in the graph, but at some point the curve would fall below. Total stopping distance isn't the only relevant factor.

 

Of course the modern car would also allow you to steer whilst applying full breaking force, the old car would not.

 

But I don't think any of this is a reason to break 30 limits when they're appropriate.

[DT Ralge]

If you draw a graph of speed for both cars against the distance from breaking, the modern car would be below the old car for the full portion of the graph.

If the modern car was travelling faster (to a certain point), it would start above the old car in the graph, but at some point the curve would fall below. Total stopping distance isn't the only relevant factor.

 

Of course the modern car would also allow you to steer whilst applying full breaking force, the old car would not.

 

But I don't think any of this is a reason to break 30 limits when they're appropriate.

 

Brake and steer to avoid is a driving technique VERY, VERY few drivers have ever been shown let alone experienced for themselves (don't try this at home, folks!) Of all the national post-test driver training companies only one gets the

driver trying it on-road - so the truth about

ABS is that many untrained drivers in an

emergency braking situation don't get to use

the technology, they freeze, shut their eyes

and take their hands off the steering wheel and hit what they could have avoided.

[Cyclone]

Maybe everyone should be forced to take track days with their car.

[daftlad]

whats more anti social than speeding is using drugs