The bliss of ignorance

[boyfriday]

Following on from another recent thread highlighting our gullible nature and eagerness to believe conspiracy theories on the internet, I thought at least it shows someone has taken the time to read the media out there.

 

Conversely there exists an ignorance that is formed through a lack of exploration, the kind of mindset that keeps people emotionally poor.. a blissful state of certainty based on indolence.

 

Many times here points are argued constructively, and then someone will pitch in with statements like 'why do you post so many links' or 'I can't be bothered to read them' the most cutting retort of the cerebrally challenged is to announce that they've placed you on ignore, as if the irritant that gives them a rash will be cured if they stop looking at it.

 

There are many contentious issues that are discussed here-immigration, politics, Islam, crime etc, but before they descend into bitchiness, lies are invariably presented as fact, and when evidence to the contrary is presented it is assiduously ignored.

 

Someone said the other day that it's impossible to change peoples minds, but surely that isn't a virtue? Shouldn't we be open minded enough to accept a conflicting argument or at least consider the reasoning behind it?

 

None of this is rocket science or original thinking on my part, but what I'd like to know is are people able (happy) to change long held views when confronted with the evidence that contradicts them, or are they content in their beliefs on the basis that they never have to open a book or seek experiences that will challenge their thinking?

 

Right, back to finish my tepid lamb sag

[Bethsmummy]

Is it ignorance or pure stubbornness?

[Swan_Vesta]

Makes you wonder though; If ignorance is bliss then why aren't folk happier?

[taxman]

You would say that though wouldn't you?!

[icon76]

I think anyone faced with proof they are wrong should have the good grace to admit it. However in the case of many issues there is no proof just personal opinion (guff like religion or how mass immigration is evil/super being an example).

 

So in those cases maybe just accept that people have different views and not preach about it?

[donkey]

Following on from another recent thread highlighting our gullible nature and eagerness to belive conspiracy theories on the internet, I thought at least it shows someone has taken the time to read the media out there.

 

Conversely there exists an ignorance that is formed through a lack of exploration, the kind of mindset that keeps people emotionally poor.. a blissful state of certainty based on indolence.

 

Many times here points are argued constructively, and then someone will pitch in with statements like 'why do you post so many links' or 'I can't be bothered to read them' the most cutting retort of the cerebrally challenged is to announce that they've placed you on ignore, as if the irritant that gives them a rash will be cured if they stop looking at it.

There are many contentious issues that are discussed here-immigration, politics, Islam, crime etc, but before they descend into bitchiness, lies are invariably presented as fact, and when evidence to the contrary is presented it is assiduously ignored.

 

Someone said the other day that it's impossible to change peoples minds, but surely that isn't a virtue? Shouldn't we be open minded enough to accept a conflicting argument or at least consider the reasoning behind it?

 

None of this is rocket science or original thinking on my part, but what I'd like to know is are people able (happy) to change long held views when confronted with the evidence that contradicts them, or are they content in their beliefs on the basis that they never have to open a book or seek experiences that will challenge their thinking?

 

Right back to finish my tepid lamb sag

 

 

It's because the decent ordinary members of the British public have common sense and they know what's right, so they don't need to refer to so called 'facts' and 'informtion' which is the preserve of the lefty do-gooders who want to sell our country down the swanny.

[boyfriday]

Is it ignorance or pure stubbornness?

 

Maybe one is a symptom of the other.

[boyfriday]

Makes you wonder though; If ignorance is bliss then why aren't folk happier?

 

..there's the rub SV, the ignorant are deluding themselves which creates its own unhappiness.

[cosywolf]

Well expressed, Boyfriday.

I've been part of this Forum for years, and I'm pleased with its success.

Unfortunately that very success seems to mean that with the high numbers of posters involved, the possibility of a real debate with real arguments lessens exponentially.

I'm rarely seen now because what I enjoyed about the Forum was the discussions that gave me a fuller and more rounded view of a topic. I'm aware that I have a slightly wonky moral compass at times, and a few blind spots in my reasoning. It helps me gain perspective and sometimes even a different opinion when I have the opportunity to explore many other views- and importantly, references to more places to explore the facts.

 

I've run screaming from the Forum on more than a few occasions recently due to the fact that more and more people will simply ignore a well-turned argument or links to supporting evidence in favour of repeating themselves again and again, often with increasing amounts of insult, as if that somehow proves their point.

By all means disagree with an opinion, but at least attempt to address the arguments presented by the other side. The Forum equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and yelling 'because I said so' over and over again makes even the idea of trying to debate anything wear me out.

 

The self-styled 'devil's advocates' who come to every post that might be considered contentious and make hamfisted attempts to 'stir it up' unsubtlely need a little more practise, too. It's a skill, and can make things more interesting and thought provoking - if you put actual thought into it. Otherwise, it's just annoying, like an unsociable reflex - Forum Tourettes.

 

I think, though, that these are the limitations of having such a huge number of posters. People are less familiar with each other, get outfaced by the amount of discussion, and the feeling of a snug place to explore and exchange ideas is sacrificed to the numbers. Not a bad thin in all ways. The sheer reach of this forum is a great thing. But I often wish for an alternative, quieter, more reasoned place to hang out as well. An antidote to SF.

[boyfriday]

Well expressed, Boyfriday.

I've been part of this Forum for years, and I'm pleased with its success.

Unfortunately that very success seems to mean that with the high numbers of posters involved, the possibility of a real debate with real arguments lessens exponentially.

I'm rarely seen now because what I enjoyed about the Forum was the discussions that gave me a fuller and more rounded view of a topic. I'm aware that I have a slightly wonky moral compass at times, and a few blind spots in my reasoning. It helps me gain perspective and sometimes even a different opinion when I have the opportunity to explore many other views- and importantly, references to more places to explore the facts.

 

I've run screaming from the Forum on more than a few occasions recently due to the fact that more and more people will simply ignore a well-turned argument or links to supporting evidence in favour of repeating themselves again and again, often with increasing amounts of insult, as if that somehow proves their point.

By all means disagree with an opinion, but at least attempt to address the arguments presented by the other side. The Forum equivalent of putting your hands over your ears and yelling 'because I said so' over and over again makes even the idea of trying to debate anything wear me out.

 

The self-styled 'devil's advocates' who come to every post that might be considered contentious and make hamfisted attempts to 'stir it up' unsubtlely need a little more practise, too. It's a skill, and can make things more interesting and thought provoking - if you put actual thought into it. Otherwise, it's just annoying, like an unsociable reflex - Forum Tourettes.

 

I think, though, that these are the limitations of having such a huge number of posters. People are less familiar with each other, get outfaced by the amount of discussion, and the feeling of a snug place to explore and exchange ideas is sacrificed to the numbers. Not a bad thin in all ways. The sheer reach of this forum is a great thing. But I often wish for an alternative, quieter, more reasoned place to hang out as well. An antidote to SF.

 

Agree with much of that cosy, it's a shame you're discouraged from posting because of certain features that you believe have disappeared, I've regularly run away kicking and screaming-frustrated by a poster's intransigence, as I'm sure others have been frustrated by mine, but this is still a great means of exchanging views, the anonymous environment encouraging debates and views that might not be expressed in real life.

 

With regards to 'ignorance', I don't believe this is necessarily a negative quality, I recall one poster last week who was confident enough to admit they didn't know what halal meat was and sought the answer so they could make an informed contribution. Their subsequent posts enlightened the debate from a neutral perspective, as opposed to those with views that might have appeared entrenched, my own included.